The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[Samuel]

You do not see much of a difference between European and American Soft Felt Dress Hats up to the 1920s. They were mostly brim up hats worn with center crease and most had some type of curled brim.

For example this late 1920s Echter Borsalino

Here is a less formal / sporty (becomes more acceptable) Snap Brim Echter Borsalino from the later 1930s. This form is fairly typical of hats of this type + time period in Central Europe. (Update: If you look at the above photos you will see a similar style hat in the late 1930s JHS ad stand in the right background.)

C. G. Wilke "Bürstel Electra" from the same time period.

Of course this is just one form. In the same time period you see different forms of less formal Soft Felt Snap Brim Hats. For example this Soft Felt Snap Brim Borsalino sold in Bulgaria.

I haven't come across any German or Austrian made Snap Brim Soft Felt Hats with American Western influence until the 1950s. For example this mid to later 1950s Stetson - Mayser Stratoliner that belongs to Manfred. Mayser acquired the Stetson licence for Germany in 1954.

Nice collection of chapeau's

 

[mayserwegener]

Nice collection of chapeau's

Samuel, Thanks!

 

[steur]

Thanks! This is one of a great three hat find.

In this time period (Germany) it would be considered a Fashion Hat / Mode Hut. I have never come across the terms Homburg or Lords Hat in German or Austrian Hat Trade news papers or catalogs. You may see a model name listed in a catalog or advertisement but it's specific to that hat (I don't believe I have seen a model name on a hat pre 1950s). In this time period Fashion Hat / Mode Hut applied to all Soft Felt Dress Hats and most were Brim Up Hats with some type of Curled Brim. This Echter Borsalino is a very high price point hat so owned by a man with a lot of money and worn with similar price point clothing (suite and outer coat).

Here is different Echter Borsalino (same time period and probably same original owner) from the same find. It's possible to snap the brim but it was designed to be worn Brim Up. It would also be called a Fashion Hat / Mode Hut.

Maybe we should do this more often: tease Steve a bit with a discussion and he unloads his jawdropping collection of hats on us. It feels like Christmas already!

 

[steur]

Quick question

Is "Lords" something that would even appear in a catalog or is it sort of an understood style that may not be mentioned?

and isn't it a term that originated in the UK ?

honest questions... this is a hat term that eludes me


Sent from my space aged handheld communication device and universal translator

I do have quite a few hats from British hatmakers but I wouldn't consider myself an expert by any measure. The term "Lords hat" does not show up in any publication I have about the English hatting industry (or in advertising). They do use the term Homburg and sometimes Eden hat. The consensus seems to be that a Lords hat is basically a homburg without the brim binding (and with side dents). As far as I can tell that is not based on anything specific. That hat style is quite rare if you don't count older hats with unbound curled brims. I only have one example, which is this Staalmeester. In every way a homburg except for the brim.

 

[moontheloon]

I do have quite a few hats from British hatmakers but I wouldn't consider myself an expert by any measure. The term "Lords hat" does not show up in any publication I have about the English hatting industry (or in advertising). They do use the term Homburg and sometimes Eden hat. The consensus seems to be that a Lords hat is basically a homburg without the brim binding (and with side dents). As far as I can tell that is not based on anything specific. That hat style is quite rare if you don't count older hats with unbound curled brims. I only have one example, which is this Staalmeester. In every way a homburg except for the brim.

View attachment 81598

yeah .. that is the only thing I have ever known about the term ... was just wondering if it was a legit name for the style or something that was an unofficial nickname so to speak

 

[mayserwegener]

Maybe we should do this more often: tease Steve a bit with a discussion and he unloads his jawdropping collection of hats on us. It feels like Christmas already!

Stefan, Thanks! I probably got carried away a bit.

 

[Redfokker]

I do have quite a few hats from British hatmakers but I wouldn't consider myself an expert by any measure. The term "Lords hat" does not show up in any publication I have about the English hatting industry (or in advertising). They do use the term Homburg and sometimes Eden hat. The consensus seems to be that a Lords hat is basically a homburg without the brim binding (and with side dents). As far as I can tell that is not based on anything specific. That hat style is quite rare if you don't count older hats with unbound curled brims. I only have one example, which is this Staalmeester. In every way a homburg except for the brim.

View attachment 81598

Your description of the term Lord's Hat is perfect. We Americans have put our spin on a number of hat style terms, Homburg is one germane to this forum. Steve has always corrected this by using the European term of Soft Felt Dress Hat for example. The whole Bowler/Derby/Melone terminology is also indicative of how hat styles take on their own regional/continental names. This Staalmeester is a stunning example of what I like to call a Lord's Hat. It is simply beautiful. Envy, covet, etc.

 

[mayserwegener]

Your description of the term Lord's Hat is perfect. We Americans have put our spin on a number of hat style terms, Homburg is one germane to this forum. Steve has always corrected this by using the European term of Soft Felt Dress Hat for example. The whole Bowler/Derby/Melone terminology is also indicative of how hat styles take on their own regional/continental names. This Staalmeester is a stunning example of what I like to call a Lord's Hat. It is simply beautiful. Envy, covet, etc.

The (World Wide) Hat Industry used the terms (pick the language) Wool / Fur Soft Felt Hat and Wool / Fur Stiff Felt Hat. Homburg, Lord's Hat, and so on are Fashion terms. I did a quick search last night and the only older (1947, 1953) hits I got for "Lord's Hat" were from two Fashion books by Bernice Gertrude Chambers (probably American). Only snippets are available but what is visible I think points out the problem with using Fashion terms. This is why I tend to use Hat Industry terms.

Fashion Fundamentals

Bernice Gertrude Chambers
Prentice-Hall, 1947 - Clothing trade - 501 pages

In Fashion Fundamentals, Professor Bernice G. Chambers makes a contribution to the literature of retailing that has long been needed. For the first time, she brings together a wealth of material that has existed only in the pages of a bewildering array of consumer publications, trade papers, market reports, and research studies. From her own varied experience as a practitioner and teacher, and from the experience of the many buyers and manufacturers with whom she maintains constant contact, Professor Chambers has compiled a comprehensive book on Fashion Fundamentals, written from the retailer's point of view. In simple, easy-to-understand terms, the author interprets fashion as a social force, explains how the fashion world works, and evaluates the opportunities in the field for young men and women. She introduces the most influential French, English, and American designers and manufacturers. She provides the essential facts about the design, construction, and materials of fashion merchandise, including dresses; coats, suits, and furs; millinery; shoes and jewelry; bags and gloves. To aid young men and women to choose and to prepare for careers in the fashion world, the author defines the techniques of styling, buying, promoting, and selling fashion merchandise. - Editor's foreword.

Color and design: fashion in men's and women's clothing and home furnishings

Bernice Gertrude Chambers
1953 - Art - 603 pages

 

[moontheloon]

The (World Wide) Hat Industry used the terms (pick the language) Wool / Fur Soft Felt Hat and Wool / Fur Stiff Felt Hat. Homburg, Lord's Hat, and so on are Fashion terms. I did a quick search last night and the only older (1947, 1953) hits I got for "Lord's Hat" were from two Fashion books by Bernice Gertrude Chambers (probably American). Only snippets are available but what is visible I think points out the problem with using Fashion terms. This is why I tend to use Hat Industry terms.

Fashion Fundamentals

Bernice Gertrude Chambers
Prentice-Hall, 1947 - Clothing trade - 501 pages

In Fashion Fundamentals, Professor Bernice G. Chambers makes a contribution to the literature of retailing that has long been needed. For the first time, she brings together a wealth of material that has existed only in the pages of a bewildering array of consumer publications, trade papers, market reports, and research studies. From her own varied experience as a practitioner and teacher, and from the experience of the many buyers and manufacturers with whom she maintains constant contact, Professor Chambers has compiled a comprehensive book on Fashion Fundamentals, written from the retailer's point of view. In simple, easy-to-understand terms, the author interprets fashion as a social force, explains how the fashion world works, and evaluates the opportunities in the field for young men and women. She introduces the most influential French, English, and American designers and manufacturers. She provides the essential facts about the design, construction, and materials of fashion merchandise, including dresses; coats, suits, and furs; millinery; shoes and jewelry; bags and gloves. To aid young men and women to choose and to prepare for careers in the fashion world, the author defines the techniques of styling, buying, promoting, and selling fashion merchandise. - Editor's foreword.

Color and design: fashion in men's and women's clothing and home furnishings

Bernice Gertrude Chambers
1953 - Art - 603 pages

now THIS !!! is what I was looking for

thank you Steve

 

[Redfokker]

now THIS !!! is what I was looking for

thank you Steve

+1 Steve, you are a wealth of knowledge, and thanks for this.

 

[steur]

Your description of the term Lord's Hat is perfect. We Americans have put our spin on a number of hat style terms, Homburg is one germane to this forum. Steve has always corrected this by using the European term of Soft Felt Dress Hat for example. The whole Bowler/Derby/Melone terminology is also indicative of how hat styles take on their own regional/continental names. This Staalmeester is a stunning example of what I like to call a Lord's Hat. It is simply beautiful. Envy, covet, etc.

yeah .. that is the only thing I have ever known about the term ... was just wondering if it was a legit name for the style or something that was an unofficial nickname so to speak

The (World Wide) Hat Industry used the terms (pick the language) Wool / Fur Soft Felt Hat and Wool / Fur Stiff Felt Hat. Homburg, Lord's Hat, and so on are Fashion terms. I did a quick search last night and the only older (1947, 1953) hits I got for "Lord's Hat" were from two Fashion books by Bernice Gertrude Chambers (probably American). Only snippets are available but what is visible I think points out the problem with using Fashion terms. This is why I tend to use Hat Industry terms.

Fashion Fundamentals

Bernice Gertrude Chambers
Prentice-Hall, 1947 - Clothing trade - 501 pages

In Fashion Fundamentals, Professor Bernice G. Chambers makes a contribution to the literature of retailing that has long been needed. For the first time, she brings together a wealth of material that has existed only in the pages of a bewildering array of consumer publications, trade papers, market reports, and research studies. From her own varied experience as a practitioner and teacher, and from the experience of the many buyers and manufacturers with whom she maintains constant contact, Professor Chambers has compiled a comprehensive book on Fashion Fundamentals, written from the retailer's point of view. In simple, easy-to-understand terms, the author interprets fashion as a social force, explains how the fashion world works, and evaluates the opportunities in the field for young men and women. She introduces the most influential French, English, and American designers and manufacturers. She provides the essential facts about the design, construction, and materials of fashion merchandise, including dresses; coats, suits, and furs; millinery; shoes and jewelry; bags and gloves. To aid young men and women to choose and to prepare for careers in the fashion world, the author defines the techniques of styling, buying, promoting, and selling fashion merchandise. - Editor's foreword.

Color and design: fashion in men's and women's clothing and home furnishings

Bernice Gertrude Chambers
1953 - Art - 603 pages

I'll keep searching for quotes on the term "lords hat" in English publications if only to see if the term was in more general use at one time. Because hats which fit the description we use for it today are so rare it's not of much use nowadays of course. It certainly won't get you any useable results on ebay.

 

[steur]

More on topic again (the discussion above would fit the Homburg nation thread better). Here's a borsalino I haven't posted before. New old stock Borsalino Azoico (blue-grey). Size 56 with an overwelt brim at 5,5cm and crown at 10,5 cm at the pinch. Lovely longhair finish. The hat dates from the sixties I think.

 

[mayserwegener]

now THIS !!! is what I was looking for

thank you Steve

+1 Steve, you are a wealth of knowledge, and thanks for this.

Anthony, Mike, Thanks but I am not sure this is much help other than showing it's not a good idea to rely on fashion terms.

 

[moontheloon]

Anthony, Mike, Thanks but I am not sure this is much help other than showing it's not a good idea to rely on fashion terms.

but technically ... isn't everything from "fedora" to "boater" a fashion term ?

we are not really dealing with scientific discoveries or anything ... a hat is basically a fashion accessory with practical application ... no different than shoes or a coat ... no?

 

[mayserwegener]

but technically ... isn't everything from "fedora" to "boater" a fashion term ?

we are not really dealing with scientific discoveries or anything ... a hat is basically a fashion accessory with practical application ... no different than shoes or a coat ... no?

Yes those are fashion terms that are not always accurate or change over time. I just tend use Felt Hat Industry terms because they are more clear + unversial. Wool Soft Felt Hat, Wool Stiff Felt Hat, Fur Soft Felt Hat , Fur Stiff Felt Hat. Translate into given language.

 

[moontheloon]

Yes those are fashion terms that are not always accurate or change over time. I just tend use Felt Hat Industry terms because they are more clear + unversial. Wool Soft Felt Hat, Wool Stiff Felt Hat, Fur Soft Felt Hat , Fur Stiff Felt Hat. Translate into given language.

fantastic ... I would like to adopt that nomenclature as well
thanks Steve

 

[Bob Roberts]

fantastic ... I would like to adopt that nomenclature as well
thanks Steve

Would you like to adopt a hat roadie?

 

[moontheloon]

Would you like to adopt a hat roadie?

yes ... but we call them techs Bob... techs ... please
"roadie" is so 1970s

 

[Bob Roberts]

yes ... but we call them techs Bob... techs ... please
"roadie" is so 1970s

Our "roadies" were only called for beer and drugs.

 

[mayserwegener]

fantastic ... I would like to adopt that nomenclature as well
thanks Steve

I will use some Fashion Terms (for example Homburg) because most people here are not Hat Industry focused. When I see some Fashion Terms like "Lord's Hat" I tend to overreact.