The Big Christmas Can of Worms

[Marc Chevalier]

In the Modern Roman Alphabet, the first letter of the word ?¢‚ǨÀúChrist?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ is ?¢‚ǨÀúchi?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ ...

I believe you meant to say "In the Greek alphabet" ...

 

[makll]

Perhaps,
That was quoted from
http://www.classbrain.com/artholiday/publish/Xmas.shtml


here is another ( i included part of the reference) :
I must agree with your anonymous complainant about the use of the word "Xmas", but not for the same reason. (I'm an atheist and don't much care what people call it, so long as it's shorter than "that holiday when I drink too much, eat too much and buy expensive presents at the last minute because I couldn't be arsed to sort it out earlier".)
The "X" in Xmas actually represent the Greek letter "chi", the first letter of the word "christos". This is yet another blatant example of the pollution of our fine language with Greek gibberish: Engreek, if you will.
Jeremy went further with the linguistic background:

moe here:http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/01/18/


mm, need to bone up on my html skills........

 

[CoffeeDude]

For me it has been and will always be "Merry Christmas". Personally I don't care if someone responses with "Happy Kwanzaa" or "Happy Chanukah". What I don't care for is the homogenized holidays that end up with no meaning and therefore no value. The early church leaders understood one thing that people today have a hard time grasping. If you're going motivate change, like changing a pagen celebration of winter soltace to Christmas, you have to attach deep meaning and value to it. We have none of that now. We're in a society that's working on replacing Christmas celebrations (unless they benefit from it financially) in order to be more inclusive and in removing these celebrations, they are removing the deep meaning and value attached to Christmas with a vague sense of "goodwill". It's like replacing a 7 course meal with a bowl of plain yogurt. That's all I have to say about that ... unless I think of something else.

 

[Section10]

Religion aside; regarding the quote used by Makll about the 'Greek gibberish'.
Anyone who has spent any time studying both Greek and English grammar soon realizes that Greek is a far finer and more expressive language than any other. That's one reason it was used to write the new testament.

 

[makll]

the quotes were posted for general information only about the x in x-mas.
I am not saying I agree or disagree with them.

I would not class myself as religious but of a more spiritual nature and have posted at 5150BarandGrill on this and similar topics.

In regards to christmas. Thats what it has always been for me. This idea to change the term to make it a neutral phrase to include all, well its just to politically correct for me. whats next?

As to what it means to me, simply said: friends, family, food, caring and concern and a sense of camaraderie in and for life. Something that can be done all year.

My son is grown and so the need for gifts has less importance. I'd just as well give a gift at any time if its from the heart, no need to wait till Dec.

Dont get me wrong here. I do enjoy the season, the lights etc. Its just not really about the stuff. Its about good will, kind hearts and remembering those we love, which again can and should be done all year.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Religion aside; regarding the quote used by Makll about the 'Greek gibberish'.
Anyone who has spent any time studying both Greek and English grammar soon realizes that Greek is a far finer and more expressive language than any other. That's one reason it was used to write the new testament.

I think that Makll was trying to be tongue-in-cheek.

 

[Twitch]

In a country that is 85% christian in some form or another why are we being compelled to be politically correct and NOT say "Merry Christmas" and ARE urged to say "Happy ____")- insert festive day name here. If I am not offended by someone saying "Happy________" why should they become hostile if I say Merry Christmas? There's just no logic to it.

 

[Solomon Kane]

Merry Christmas.

 

[makll]

I post a quote a day over at 5150barandgrill
http://5150barandgrill.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46


While searching for todays quote I found one that made me think of the question asked here, What does Christmas mean to you? and so I thought I would share this here:


What is Christmas?
It is tenderness for the past, courage for the present, hope for the future. It is a fervent wish that every cup may overflow with blessings rich and eternal, and that every path may lead to peace
---
Agnes M. Pharo

 

[makll]

and one more that exemplifies my earlier post on what it means to me.


Christmas is not a time nor a season, but a state of mind. To cherish peace and goodwill, to be plenteous in mercy, is to have the real spirit of Christmas.
---
Calvin Coolidge

 

[Joseph Casazza]

I've done this myself, and have actually seen the clerks jump when I've said it...like they were afraid their supervisors heard those dreaded words, and hoped their boss didn't think THEY initiated the response! I'm not attempting to be politically correct. This is Christmas time. All these other 'holidays' seem to have been conviently rolled around this same time of year, and it's the commercial side of the equation that are pushing 'inclusion' to increase sales.

So, celebrate what you want, but all you're going to hear from me is a VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

And a HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

Regards! Michaelson

Christmas is the next to last latecomer, I'm afraid (with Kwanzaa as the latest addition). Early Christians just weren't concerned with celebrating the birth of Christ until they decided it might be a while before the second coming, got made official by Constantine, and figured attaching themselves to Saturnalia might not be such a bad PR move. Fourth century of the common era (don't get down on me about that now; those of us who study ancient civilizations use that becasue there are just soooo many ways of measuring time in the cultures we study, some of which have descendants living today whom one would not want to offend out of simple politeness). I personally celebrate the much older Saturnalia, in its original seven day configuration rather than the abbreviated three days Augustus decreed. Any chance "inclusion" could have a value in our society other than to increase sales. Nah! That would be un-American! You can say Merry Christmas all you want on your own time. What you cannot do is force someone who is not Christian or who is working on the clock for someone who has a commercial interest in inclusion (this is the USA, after all). But many will, out of the "inclusion" and politeness many Christians, in their superiority, appear to find unnecessary toward those heathen, Jewish, or other benighted souls.

 

[MK]

.

Sounds like you have your knickers in a twist. I think you have missed the point. I don't think anyone here has suggested we force anyone to celebrate the birth of Jesus.

Some Christians have a problem with Halloween. It doesn't matter if we like it or not. We don't say "Happy Holiday!" and try to be in denial that it is Halloween or get offended if someone says "Happy Halloween". It would also be lame to try and be revisionist to erode the meaning (as the common era people do) to confuse and change the definition. That is the holiday. Same goes for Martin Luther King, Independence Day or any other holiday. Like it or don't like it...but don't be in denial about it.

It IS Christmas.

BTW: It is only people in the USA that seem to be pushing this PC crap. I do business all over the world. They are all saying "Merry Christmas". I have yet to hear any other deluted and sanitized comments from internationals.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Back in the "Xmas/Christmas" thread, some folks raised the issue of the moment: "Merry Christmas" vs. "Happy Holidays."

Is this considered a big issue in the U.S.A.? If so, then America must be really bored. I guess the absurd "remove 'under God' from the Pledge of Allegiance" brouhaha wasn't enough for us.

If an individual wants to say "Merry Christmas" whenever, wherever, and to whomever he/she pleases ... go for it.

If a kid doesn't want to say "under God" when repeating the Pledge of Allegiance ... no problem.

HOWEVER ... if a group of people insists that department stores stop using the term "Happy Holidays" and replace it with "Merry Christmas" ...

AND if a group of people demands that "under God" be removed from the "Pledge of Allegiance" ...

Then we have a problem.

Department stores serve a varied clientele. Their business depends on the patronage of Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, Buddhists, and others. It would be ludicrous to expect a salesperson to say "Merry Christmas" to a black-suited, black-hatted Orthodox Jew. "Happy Holidays" covers Hannukah and any other holidays celebrated by religious people this time of the year. In other words, it's a diplomatic phrase that's well suited to businesses serving a diverse public.

As for the Pledge of Allegiance ... I don't understand why a fellow who objects to the words "under God" is not content to merely refrain from saying them. Why must he try to force ALL of us not to say them, either? Ludicrous.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

I personally don't see it as a "pc" issue, but one of being polite and respectful of cultural and religious differences.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

MK, I noticed that you wrote "Happy Holiday" without the "s". If that's what the PCers are saying, then it really is ludicrous. It denies that there is more than one religious holiday celebrated by Americans in December. It implies that there is only one holiday (Christmas), and that we dare not speak its name. That's hypocritical: if we're going to imply that Christmas is the only holiday, then let's just say "Christmas", for Pete's sake! In other words, "Merry Christmas", not "Happy Holiday."

 

[Marc Chevalier]

We don't say "Happy Holiday!" and try to be in denial that it is Halloween ....

MK, I noticed that you wrote "Happy Holiday" without the "s". If that's what the PCers are saying, then it really is ludicrous. It denies that there is more than one religious holiday celebrated by Americans in December. It implies that there is only one holiday (Christmas), and that we dare not speak its name. That's hypocritical: if we're going to imply that Christmas is the only holiday, then let's just say "Christmas", for Pete's sake! In other words, "Merry Christmas", not "Happy Holiday."

 

[Marc Chevalier]

In any case, we've moved off topic. This thread was originally about the alternate spelling of "Christmas." We can continue with the controversy in a new thread called "The problem with 'Merry Christmas'."

 

[MK]

.

I think we will keep all the worms in this can....and the lid will placed on soon. This horse is pretty much dead.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Neighhhh!

 

[makll]

Thats pretty funny marc c.