The Axis Powers

[geo]

The Germans during WW2 rutinely bombed refugee columns in '39-'40, on purpose. In the East they were waging an even more brutal war against the civilian populations, and that's not something I dreamt last night, it's well documented.

But frankly it sounds like you are implying that the Germans have some sort of genetic or cultural inclination to extreme violence during wartime.
Do you hold any other cultures or races to similar stereo types?

Yes, the Germans had an inclination to extreme violence during WW2, especially against civilians. It's not a steretype, it's a historical fact.

I don't want to get into an argument with you over this. If you like WW2, look at my "Toys" thread and tell me what you think.

 

["Doc" Devereux]

The term 'total war' is lifted from a speech that J. Goebbles delivered at the Sportpalast, after the German defeat at Stalingrad in 1943.

My understanding is that the term 'Total War' was coined by General von Ludendorff during the First World War, and it went on to be the title of a book he published on the subject in 1935. It refers specifically to the complete mobilisation of an industrial state in the pursuit of war to the extent that all facets and resources of that state, from industry to social policy and beyond, are tuned purely to the prosecution of hostilities. It was a specific reversal of the earlier von Clauswitz doctrine of 'Absolute War', where hostilities take place without political interference (which von Clauswitz himself felt was impossible).

To quote Christopher Bassford, professor of strategy at the National War College in Washington DC and a far more knowledgeable authority than myself: "Total war was a prescription for the actual waging of war typified by the ideas of General Erich von Ludendorff, who actually assumed control of the German war effort during World War One. Total war in this sense involved the total subordination of politics to the war effort?¢‚Ǩ‚Äùan idea Clausewitz emphatically rejected?¢‚Ǩ‚Äùand the assumption that total victory or total defeat were the only options."

The idea that Germany was engaged in total war did not surface in WW2 until Goebbels' Sportpalast speech, despite Speer's work as Armament Minister to bring the German industrial base into more agressive productivity from 1942, but the actual concept does predate it. The reason that Goebbels' speech made such an impact was the Nazi government's firm focus up to that point on the idea of short, sharp wars won through Blitzkreig. The idea of a long war seems not to have occurred to them. If one were to seek an example of a country employing the concept of 'Total War' in that context, I would offer the United Kingdom as an example: especially with regard to measures taken before the war making ready for its inevitable requirements.

But that's a technical point.

Yes, the laws of war were ignored - by ALL sides, according to some of the things I've heard. Yes there were awful and inhuman things done, and that veneer is indeed a thin one. I'm not disputing any of that. But I would argue that atrocity is not in and of itself a part of the doctrine is question.

 

[Alan Eardley]

The Japanese bombed several cities in to rubble, all across China and the rest of Asia, when they invaded during the early 30's.

Indeed they did. The annals of infamy are a surprisingly large volume when you begin to look into it.

 

[falcodriver]

The Japanese certainly did not come up second to any combatant when it comes to war atrocities. They believed that surrender was dishonerable, and treated prisoners with contempt. But their sense of honor in warfare is a sham. When confronted with evidence of their deeds, they claimed innocence, and were as cowardly as any they executed. On Guadalcanal, they executed American civilian workers so there would be no witnesses to their brutality. When the war ended shortly thereafter they denied this. Eventually the commanding officer was executed for war crimes. Did this so called samarai confront his accusers and state "I stand by what I did", of course not. A society that breeds such scum, that is the real danger that was presented by many of the Axis powers. The anals of infamy are indeed large.

Hacker

 

[Robert Conway]

The Germans during WW2 rutinely bombed refugee columns in '39-'40, on purpose. In the East they were waging an even more brutal war against the civilian populations, and that's not something I dreamt last night, it's well documented.

Yes, the Germans had an inclination to extreme violence during WW2, especially against civilians. It's not a steretype, it's a historical fact.

I don't want to get into an argument with you over this. If you like WW2, look at my "Toys" thread and tell me what you think.

Yes the Germans did conduct themselves during the war in a manner, for which there is no excuse. And so did the Russians and the Japanese. My point is that the other fellow was implying that this sort of behavior is only confined to the Germans and according to him, appears to be part of their genetic make-up, which is just as much rubbish as saying that skin color determines inteligence.

 

[Lincsong]

Racial Superiority was a two way street

During the Japanese invasions of Indonesia and the Phillippines the first civilians to be put in the gunny sack and bayoneted were the mestizo landed classes. These were old Dutch and Spanish families with land ownings. The Japanese felt that they such mixed people had to be the first eliminated so that the "pure" Asians could control this. Of course this meant that the Japanese were the first degree of "pure" and the Chinese, Koreans, Malays etc. were second amongst "equals".

This thread has really picked up in the last 36 hours. Everyone is doing a great job and bringing new and better points to the table with each post.

 

[geo]

But frankly it sounds like you are implying that the Germans have some sort of genetic or cultural inclination to extreme violence during wartime.
Do you hold any other cultures or races to similar stereo types?

Yes the Germans did conduct themselves during the war in a manner, for which there is no excuse. And so did the Russians and the Japanese.

A-Ha! :icon_smil