The Age of Entitlement

[Son_of_Atropos]

The problem with the age of entitlement is that it eliminates the consequences of choice. In the bygone days, if you make a mistake, it was your fault. Not society's. Not others. Yours. That has changed. For the worse.

In regards to clothing, sounds like a majority of the posters in this thread (from what I have seen) think it is some how despicable to make assumptions about a person based on their clothing. I disagree. It is perfectly natural to make conclusions based on the information available to you. You can formulate sound assumptions based on a person's clothing because clothing is the image that a person projects to the world. Obviously these assumptions should be adjusted upon further evidence but if I see someone wearing a One Direction shirt I will assume that person likes the band. Likewise, if I see someone wearing some high-end clothing I will assume that person has expensive taste or has some dough. People don't buy things they don't need and they don't wear things they don't like. Naturally, a person's clothing represents a mere peak or glimpse of some persons, but with other people it could be a complete record of that person and his values. Ultimately, clothing is a projection of the person. If someone doesn't like the response maybe they should change their image. Ultimately, it's up to that person.

 

[sheeplady]

The problem with the age of entitlement is that it eliminates the consequences of choice. In the bygone days, if you make a mistake, it was your fault. Not society's. Not others. Yours. That has changed. For the worse.

In regards to clothing, sounds like a majority of the posters in this thread (from what I have seen) think it is some how despicable to make assumptions about a person based on their clothing. I disagree. It is perfectly natural to make conclusions based on the information available to you. You can formulate sound assumptions based on a person's clothing because clothing is the image that a person projects to the world. Obviously these assumptions should be adjusted upon further evidence but if I see someone wearing a One Direction shirt I will assume that person likes the band. Likewise, if I see someone wearing some high-end clothing I will assume that person has expensive taste or has some dough. People don't buy things they don't need and they don't wear things they don't like. Naturally, a person's clothing represents a mere peak or glimpse of some persons, but with other people it could be a complete record of that person and his values. Ultimately, clothing is a projection of the person. If someone doesn't like the response maybe they should change their image. Ultimately, it's up to that person.

The problem is that most people make their decisions along the negative or positive line. For instance, if someone is wearing a band t-shirt, assuming that they are fans of that band isn't a negative or positive judgement. If someone dresses poorly (as in, clothes in poor condition) often they are thought to be financially poor and are treated as such. (Poor people are often not treated well by our society.) It's a breakdown of common courtesy to do so. You can think anything you want about anyone, but when it comes down to it, treating them differently based upon how they are dressed is very unladylike or ungentlemanly.

For instance, if I have a job where I interact with the public I should treat them all similarly if they meet the guidelines of the organization. (For instance, if the place requires a jacket and tie, the place requires it.) Beyond those guidelines treating individuals differently based upon how they look is unprofessional and unbecoming. Rather than placing the burden on people who choose to dress a certain way (or have to dress a certain way) we should take it upon ourselves to treat people fairly and justly. Demanding that other people meet your personal clothing criteria in order to be treated nicely and fairly is not a value we should uphold.

I have been treated differently by businesses based upon how I was dressed. I don't do business there. I'm the same person with the same money if I wear jeans or a nice wool suit. If a person can't be bothered to treat me nicely if I am dressed in jeans that is their loss. I don't have much respect for people who can't see beyond clothing.

 

[LizzieMaine]

In regards to clothing, sounds like a majority of the posters in this thread (from what I have seen) think it is some how despicable to make assumptions about a person based on their clothing.

No, I don't think anyone's said that -- everybody makes certain assumptions whether they want to admit it or not. What's despicable is when one thinks that those assumptions, made from a position of some sort of presumed superiority, entitle the assumer to subject others to public ridicule over their choices in clothing while cowering behind the veil of the Internet. If one feels so strongly about J. Random Stranger's outfit that they can't resist commenting about it, they should have the courage of their convictions and tell Mr. Stranger to his face. Otherwise, common courtesy requires that they should mind their own business. *Having* an opinion doesn't mean one is obligated to share it -- and too many people today go thru life thinking the entire world is an Internet comment field.

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

No, I don't think anyone's said that -- everybody makes certain assumptions whether they want to admit it or not. What's despicable is when one thinks that those assumptions, made from a position of some sort of presumed superiority, entitle the assumer to subject others to public ridicule over their choices in clothing while cowering behind the veil of the Internet. If one feels so strongly about J. Random Stranger's outfit that they can't resist commenting about it, they should have the courage of their convictions and tell Mr. Stranger to his face. Otherwise, common courtesy requires that they should mind their own business. *Having* an opinion doesn't mean one is obligated to share it -- and too many people today go thru life thinking the entire world is an Internet comment field.

What if a person is wearing notch lapels on their evening wear? I think that would require a comment, don't you?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Wouldn't bother me at all. My evening wear is a rump-sprung, cat-snagged corduroy bathrobe.

 

[Feraud]

What if a person is wearing notch lapels on their evening wear? I think that would require a comment, don't you?

What kind of comment would it require?

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

What kind of comment would it require?

"Why?" springs to mind.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Because they want to: the only answer required in this hypothetical case, and most other cases.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Come to think of it, going back thru all the people I've known in my life, going back to my grandparents' generation, there's only one person who's ever had occasion to wear Evening Clothes. He was a head waiter, and used to shine his lapels every night before going to work with shoe polish. He looked elegant, but he always smelled like Kiwi Dress Parade. I asked him "why?" and he said "Because it's cheaper than getting a new suit."

(He never used the polish on the seat of the pants, but they shined too.)

 

[sheeplady]

What if a person is wearing notch lapels on their evening wear? I think that would require a comment, don't you?

What other sorts of personal appearance do you feel it's necessary to comment on? Just clothing, or also hair style or other things?

Most people learn (or at least they're supposed to learn) when they're children that if you can't say anything nice about a person's appearance (particularly if they are a stranger) to keep their mouths shut and their fingers not pointed at the person. If it's embarrassing if a toddler says "Why is that strange man's coat all dirty?" it's embarrassing for an adult to say it too even behind the person's back. Little kids can't help but point out things they think are "funny" or out of the ordinary, they have to be taught to keep their thoughts to themselves about other people. I wish more people would adopt that perspective. It's not a moral high ground to speak ill of someone but to only do it behind their back but still in public.

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

What other sorts of personal appearance do you feel it's necessary to comment on? Just clothing, or also hair style or other things?

Most people learn (or at least they're supposed to learn) when they're children that if you can't say anything nice about a person's appearance (particularly if they are a stranger) to keep their mouths shut and their fingers not pointed at the person. If it's embarrassing if a toddler says "Why is that strange man's coat all dirty?" it's embarrassing for an adult to say it too even behind the person's back. Little kids can't help but point out things they think are "funny" or out of the ordinary, they have to be taught to keep their thoughts to themselves about other people. I wish more people would adopt that perspective. It's not a moral high ground to speak ill of someone but to only do it behind their back but still in public.

Omg. Its a free country I can say whateva I want. Criticism doesn't necessarily mean contempt or ill-will. l-o-l. If I saw someone with their hair dyed pink (eeks) I would make a comment on it. Of course, some1 dyeing their hair pink is obviously seeking to elicit a response... so like you know, mission accomplished, l-o-l. Are you saying you don't draw any conclusions based on a person's appearance, manner, or characteristics? Or is like a person's clothing like the only thing that is like off limits?

Btw, compare my comments in this thread to your post at 02:08 PM, what's the difference?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Funny you should use the example of pink hair. About five years ago, I hired a kid in her second year of college to work the concession stand -- very smart girl, an English major, an aspiring writer, very polite, well-put-together, exactly the type I like to hire. The second week she worked for us she showed up one night with her hair dyed bright pink. She was still very smart, very polite, very well-put-together, except now she had pink hair. I didn't know why she did it, she didn't say anything about it, and even though we had a high-end classical music concert that night, none of the patrons said anything about it, so I didn't say anything about it. A week later she got tired of the pink and dyed it back brown again. Two years went by, and she said, "Oh jeez, remember that time I dyed my hair pink? What was I thinking?" And that was the only thing that was ever said about it.

She's still with me five years later, working as a librarian during the day and with us at night, and has become a good friend as well as a valued and trusted staff member: she takes care of my cat whenever I'm out of town, has taken care of my house, and I'd be proud to have a daughter like her. Even if she did dye her hair pink once.

 

[Pompidou]

I used to judge everyone by their appearances. I quit after encountering more exceptions to the rules than expectations from the rules, that, and being on the receiving end of it all. I judge actions and words.

 

[sheeplady]

Omg. Its a free country I can say whateva I want. Criticism doesn't necessarily mean contempt or ill-will. l-o-l. If I saw someone with their hair dyed pink (eeks) I would make a comment on it. Of course, some1 dyeing their hair pink is obviously seeking to elicit a response... so like you know, mission accomplished, l-o-l. Are you saying you don't draw any conclusions based on a person's appearance, manner, or characteristics? Or is like a person's clothing like the only thing that is like off limits?

Btw, compare my comments in this thread to your post at 02:08 PM, what's the difference?

You can say whatever you want, and you do have a right to your opinion. You may very well have the right to say what you want to someone's face, but that doesn't mean that people won't think ill of you for doing it. A lady or a gentleman doesn't say rude things to someone's face based upon their judgments about someone's appearance. A lady or a gentleman doesn't treat someone different because of how they are dressed, and in particular, isn't rude to someone just based upon appearance.

As far as what I do not negatively comment on to strangers includes things like dress, hairstyle, race, ethnicity, ability level, sexual orientation, etc. Most of those things I will not comment on at all. If I do say anything about hair or dress, it's going to be positive. What I may think can be and is totally separated from how I act and definitely what I say.

As far as manners, that's a totally separate issue totally unrelated to things like hair color, race, etc.