Terms Which Have Disappeared

[2jakes]

I won't argue that many people don't seem to actively search for reasons to claim offense. But there are certain terms that are well known in their origin and connotation, and if I know they are going to offend, I don't see the virtue in using them to try to claim the moral high ground.

As a kid of 4-5, I would take a piece of wood & old tire tube & build a sling-shot.
It was not until I was in elementary that I became aware of the derogatory name that the guys
had given it. I was not thinking & never associated it to people.
I stopped calling it that when I found out because I didn't like it. I didn't hang out with the fellows because
they were mostly doing dumb things .
I usually had one friend that enjoyed the same things & had a swell time.
Skinny-dipping was something we did, although I don't really know it's actual origin
it's a term that I don't hear today !

 

[tonyb]

My maternal grandfather, a white (mostly, we think) person of what was once called "illegitimate" birth (which was hardly the most scandalous thing to know about his origins), hailed from St. Joseph, Missouri. The N-word tripped off his tongue as easily and readily as asking how do you do.

Was he a racist? I do believe so, but no more so, and likely less so, than most others of his time and place. But I don't believe that at heart he thought himself superior to persons of any color. I'm confident he made negative assumptions about people based on their color, but that's mostly because I believe most people did then and still do today.

 

[Mr Oldschool]

One that I have struggled to understand is why people with dwarfism want to be called "dwarves" rather than "midgets". I don't think I've ever heard midget in reference to a short statured person meant as a pejorative. I have heard the expression "mental midget" to refer to closed minded people, but that came along a lot later than the shunning of the term to refer to short people. It has never made sense to me that they prefer to be referred to a mythological person from Middle Earth rather than a term that only means small. I admit that I tend to use the term midget without even thinking about it if I'm talking about one, and I have never meant it as a slur. Probably the same can be said for other people about other terms that are commonplace where they come from. It doesn't stand out to them as anything other than the correct word that they've known since childhood.

 

[tonyb]

I believe that's all so, Shadomega. But if a person of short stature would rather not be called a midget, well, once a person was made aware of that, no matter how innocent his previously uninformed utterance might have been, I'd consider it rude to continue referring to that person as a midget. Old habits die hard, for sure, but I'm absolutely confident that those short people have experienced considerable discrimination and exclusion on account of their being unusually short. If what such a person wants from me is NOT to be called a midget, well, why wouldn't I honor that?

Perhaps it hasn't gotten around to everybody yet that many people with intellectual disabilities would rather not be called "retarded." The term has its place in ignition timing of internal-combustion engines. But increasing numbers of people would rather it not be used in reference to humans. They consider it demeaning, for their own reasons, which are good enough for them, and that's good enough for me, because whatever you or I or anybody else might think of that reasoning has little if any bearing on the matter.

 

[F. J.]

The Term "African-American" . . .

[...]My mother's seventy-five and still refers to "colored people," which merely reflects that she's an elderly white Mainer who has had next to no contact with African-American persons in her life.

Now there's a term that's never made sense to me. Why are people with dark skin called "African-Americans"? That's like calling me a "European-American" when my family's been here for as long as anyone can remember. If you, your parents, and their parents were born here, you're not "African-American"—you're just American. Heck, if you weren't born here but you obtain citizenship, you're an American. I hate it when we have all these terms emphasizing our differences instead of how alike we all are. The only difference between "white" and "black" people is the amount of melanin in their skin. That's it. People are people, pure and simple.

The only time "African-American" makes sense is if the person or his parents are actually from Africa.
I've only ever met one African-American. She was a doctor from Nigeria, I believe, and prescribed Naproxen no matter what was wrong with you.

 

[2jakes]

Midget & Dwarf

Midget was coined in 1865 to describe an extremely short person with body proportions similar to those of a
normal-sized person's.
P.T. Barnum indirectly helped popularize midget when he began featuring General Tom Thumb in his circus.
Dwarf originally denoted people with disproportionately short limbs. 'Midget' however became linked to
referencing 'dwarfs' put on display for public ridicule and sport, whereas 'dwarf' or 'dwarfism' has a more medical base.

Like many other older terms, midget has become a part of popular language, although it is sometimes used in a
derogatory sense. When applied to a person who is very short, midget is an example of the euphemism treadmill.
Actor Herve Villechaize insisted on being called a "midget" as opposed to a "little person". which irritated some
dwarf activists of the time.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Villechaize's example is exactly what the point should be. If you must refer to a person as a member of an identity group, call them what they prefer to be called. Here in Maine, the majority of persons of the Penobscot or Passamaquoddy tribes prefer to be called that -- not generic "Native Americans." Learn what the person wants, and go with that.

Or better yet, just call them by their individual names. I'm sure Mr. Villechaize would have most preferred to be called "Mr. Villechaize," and not "that midget/dwarf/little person on TV."

Part of the dislike of the term "midget" has to do with the way it was genericized in the Era to refer to any smaller-than-normal item. "Midget radios," "midget lamps," and "midget auto racing" were very popular in the thirties, and you can perhaps understand how being reduced to a commodity in such a way might be unpleasant.

 

[2jakes]

Villechaize's example is exactly what the point should be. If you must refer to a person as a member of an identity group, call them what they prefer to be called. Here in Maine, the majority of persons of the Penobscot or Passamaquoddy tribes prefer to be called that -- not generic "Native Americans." Learn what the person wants, and go with that.

This is very interesting. Learning also about the canoes & how they were made as well.
Thanks LizzieMaine

~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[LizzieMaine]

And yes, it's still "Indian Township." "Indian" seems to be preferred over "Native American" by those who express a preference here.

"Squaw Mountain," however, is controverisal. The name of the mountain itself was changed to "Big Moose Mountain" about fifteen years ago, but the ski area connected to it remains "Squaw Mountain."

We have many authentic Indian place names here -- Chickawaukie, Passagassawakeag, Madawaska, Damariscotta, Passadumkeag, etc, etc, etc. It's considered offensive not to make the effort to pronounce them correctly.

 

[2jakes]

And yes, it's still "Indian Township." "Indian" seems to be preferred over "Native American" by those who express a preference here.

"Squaw Mountain," however, is controverisal. The name of the mountain itself was changed to "Big Moose Mountain" about fifteen years ago, but the ski area connected to it remains "Squaw Mountain."

We have many authentic Indian place names here -- Chickawaukie, Passagassawakeag, Madawaska, Damariscotta, Passadumkeag, etc, etc, etc. It's considered offensive not to make the effort to pronounce them correctly.

Quoddy boots made in Maine

I've been contemplating getting some ,
they look like "the cat's pajamas"...I like em'


Cat's pajamas = term that has disappeared ...

 

[tonyb]

Villechaize's example is exactly what the point should be. If you must refer to a person as a member of an identity group, call them what they prefer to be called. Here in Maine, the majority of persons of the Penobscot or Passamaquoddy tribes prefer to be called that -- not generic "Native Americans." Learn what the person wants, and go with that. ...

It's a point that ought meet with no argument from reasonable people. Yet some otherwise thoughtful folks dig in their heels at the suggestion that they refer to people in a way they hadn't before.

It's at least a couple of things, I suspect, that has people crying "political correctness run amok" when confronted with a new way of speaking. People don't like being "corrected," especially when they mean no offense. That's certainly true of me, and I don't think it's projecting too much to think it's true of most other people. And while humans love novelty, we also crave stability. Most people over age 40 have seen their world change in ways they would rather it hadn't. Names influence our perception of whatever it is that's being named. We resist that which challenges our perceptions because it often entails a reassessment of ourselves and our place in the world. And, well, we'd rather not do that.

 

[HudsonHawk]

The only difference between "white" and "black" people is the amount of melanin in their skin. That's it. People are people, pure and simple.

If people actually believed that and behaved accordingly, you'd have a point. But we all know better.

And "African-American" refers to more than just geography. It's certainly more descriptive than just "black" when referring to a certain group of individuals who became "American" against their will.

 

[tonyb]

When I was a kid, I was a member of a drum and bugle corps sponsored by the Japanese-American Citizens League. The adult members of the league were among the most America-believing Americans I have ever known. And these people were, for the most part, incarcerated in concentration camps during the war. Their property was seized. Many volunteered for military service and performed with great distinction.

I suspect they would have preferred their fellow countrymen had been so colorblind as some like to believe we are, and were. I talked with a then 90-some-year-old Mr. Higashi at a funeral a few years back (Mr. Higashi has since shuffled off himself). He told me of his early years over in Wenatchee, Washington, and how the best job he could get was being a janitor. This was due entirely to his race. He eventually moved to Seattle and operated a filling station and auto repair. He raised his family and led an honorable life. I mentioned to him during that conversation a few years ago how I still remembered him explaining to a then teenage me why our drum and bugle corps's equipment truck made that ticking sound when it was shut down. He said it's funny what memories stick.

 

[ChiTownScion]

Other disappeared terms/ expressions:

"Who died and left you as boss?"

"Who put a nickel in you?"

"They looked like Coxey's Army!"

"He came in like Grant took Richmond!"

"I was doin' that when you were kickin' the slats out of your cradle !"

 

[LizzieMaine]

"I was doin' that when you were kickin' the slats out of your cradle !"

A variation on this common up until the twenties or so was, when spoken to an uppity young man, "I was doin' that when you were wearin' dresses." Which does not imply an early prediliction for transvestism, but rather, that up thru the early years of the 20th Century, children of both sexes commonly wore dresses until they were four years old or so.

 

[F. J.]

Boys in dresses . . .

A variation on this common up until the twenties or so was, when spoken to an uppity young man, "I was doin' that when you were wearin' dresses." Which does not imply an early prediliction for transvestism, but rather, that up thru the early years of the 20th Century, children of both sexes commonly wore dresses until they were four years old or so.

Here's an example that sprang to mind.
This is a daguerreotype of Mrs. Mary Anna Randolph Custis Lee, wife of Captain Robert Edward Lee of the Army Engineers, with her third son, Robert Edward Lee, Jr., sometime in the early 1840's.

The general way to tell the boys from the girls was that for the little fellas, the hair was parted on the side, and for the girls, in the middle. (I'm not sure how reliable this is after the 1860's, though.)
Boys wore dresses until they were about four or five years old, when they were breeched. I imagine that the reason for having them wear dresses was originally of practical value, making it easier to changer diapers and such.



Can you guess who this is?





Franklin Delano Roosevelt, aged 2 1/2, 1884.

 

[Bushman]

"Who died and left you as boss?"

This one has disappeared? I hear people use this all the time.

 

[Stanley Doble]

How about a different slant on political correctness?

Hungarian born Canadian author George Jonas tells the following story about his boyhood.

When he was 8 or 9 the Nazis moved into Budapest and his family, being Jewish, had to get out. Train tickets were easy enough to get, but travel documents took 3 or 4 days.

For this period of time he and his parents did not dare go home. In the daytime they could stroll around the park or go to a movie or a cafe, but at night they had to depend on friends to put them up. They could not go to a hotel because they would have to show their papers.

Every afternoon his father went to a phone booth and started calling. It was not easy to find shelter since anyone harboring Jews could get into very serious trouble.

One afternoon he stepped out of the phone booth and said "It's all right. We are staying with Herr _______ '.

His mother said "Who is he? Do we know him?.

His father said "He's an anti Semite, believe it or not".

It was true. The man was an old fashioned 19th century banker complete with frock coat, wing collar and pince nez glasses. He had all the prejudices of his class and age, but he drew the line at arresting people who had committed no crime, persecuting minorities, and in general he held the Nazis in contempt and didn't care who knew it.

Jonas said " I will take an anti Semite like that any day, over a liberal who runs at the first sign of trouble".

I can't help having an uneasy feeling that those who are most punctilious about being politically correct, would conform just as carefully under a different regime.

 

[jamespowers]

Jonas said " I will take an anti Semite like that any day, over a liberal who runs at the first sign of trouble".

Wow.....:doh:

 

[KILO NOVEMBER]

"Can you guess who this is?"

I got it in about two seconds. It's amazing how much the facial structure is stable over decades!