Terms Which Have Disappeared

[Fading Fast]

The terms "liberal" and "conservative" applied by moderns to the politics of the Era are completely meaningless, just as "Browderite," "Fosterite," "New Dealer," "Taftite," "Coughlinite," "America Firster" and "Townsendite" are completely meaningless when applied to the politics of today.

In an attempt to tie the politics to the purpose of this thread in a non-ideological way, and knowing Lizzie and others will have some good insight - let me ask a question. Today, liberals, progressives, conservatives and libertarians - for example - have incredible fights (mainly verbally / intellectually) over what the name of their own group means or represents or who is a "true...." Did this same sort of internecine struggle go on back in the Golden Era within groups over their names and what they represented ideologically?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Only on the extremes. You found a lot of this kind of semantic stuff in the Communist and various Socialist parties depending on what specific ideological strain you followed. Browderite Communists hated Fosterite Communists, and vice versa. The Socialist Party and the Socialist Labor Party were two very different, oppositional institutions.

The far right was more consumed with its hatred for FDR than in figuring out a name for itself, but there were some bitter ideological battles within America First revolving around who was more "American" than anyone else, This was understandable given that the Firsters originally drew from both ends of the spectrum -- Socialist leader Norman Thomas was an early supporter -- but eventually the radical right/nativist elements dominated the movement and purged the left-wing elements.

The big debate during the Thirties, however, was more about what was truly "the American Way" than about what specific ideologies ought to be called. Supporters of laissez-faire and supporters of the New Deal were equally insistent in claiming the title of "The *true* American Way" for themselves. Popular Fronters insisted that "Communism is Twentieth Century Americanism." Coughlinites claimed to fight for "American social justice." Bundists held rallies with the stars and stripes sharing the stage with the swastika, and claimed that George Washington was the first Nazi.

It's not really all that different from the way various ideologies today wrap themselves in the flag and/or the Constitution and insist that they are the lone true followers of the Holy Founding Fathers. Only the names have changed.

If you want to look at the postwar era, both major parties were wracked by dissension. The Democrats were badly split in 1948 by the defection of the Wallaceite Progressives and the Thurmondite Dixiecrats, and the Republicans were split badly by the war between the moderate Deweyites -- which included the remnant of the Willkieite "One Worlders" of the war years -- and the right-wing Taftites. None of these factions had much use for any of the others, and the split between the Deweyites and the Taftites basically laid the groundwork for the sixties split between the Rockefellerites and the Goldwaterites -- and the ill will between right-wing and moderate Republicans that persists to this day.

 

[jamespowers]

The terms "liberal" and "conservative" applied by moderns to the politics of the Era are completely meaningless, just as "Browderite," "Fosterite," "New Dealer," "Taftite," "Coughlinite," "America Firster" and "Townsendite" are completely meaningless when applied to the politics of today.

Which is what I was saying in the first place.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

The terms "liberal" and "conservative" applied by moderns to the politics of the Era are completely meaningless, just as "Browderite," "Fosterite," "New Dealer," "Taftite," "Coughlinite," "America Firster" and "Townsendite" are completely meaningless when applied to the politics of today.

I just call them Demopublicans and Republicrats.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Frick and Frack.

 

[jamespowers]

I just call them Demopublicans and Republicrats.

That should be Demicans an Republocrats.

 

[Zombie_61]

I just call them Demopublicans and Republicrats.

That should be Demicans an Republocrats.

I have a different name for all of 'em, but I can't use it on a civil and family friendly forum like this one.

 

[ChiTownScion]

Harry was the last "common man" who will ever be elected to the Presidency -- failed haberdasher, low-echelon Army officer, Pendergast ward heeler -- and he was the last President the Boys From Marketing had absolutely no pull over. He wasn't any FDR, and he knew it, but he was a pretty decent HST.

He really didn't want to be Vice President, let alone President. He was perfectly content to be the Senator from Missouri, and he did a fine job of running the committee that monitored wartime spending. FDR more or less had to browbeat him into accepting the Veep nomination in 1944. Once he became President in April of 1945, however, he was determined to simply do the job as best he could. And that was pretty much the way he approached everything life had dealt him- from captain of Battery D in France to county judge.

That "common man" in America that you referenced- the guy who doesn't spend his lifetime lusting after higher office or greater fame and fortune, but just tries to do the best job that he can so that the next person to come along finds a better situation handed off to him than guys like HST were handed- is really nobility incarnate. None are more noble, when all's said and done. Admittedly, Harry could be venal and partisan, but it was never because he bore personal animosity toward political adversaries. It was rooted in how he viewed how politics was played: he was willing to play rough if need be... but never play dirty.

 

[2jakes]

...this might be off topic but...

I still call the convenient store, "the icehouse".
And the fridge..."the icebox" .

 

[Stanley Doble]

I think you need to reread your post. You implied that Liberals can't do the right thing! I showed you one that did, even pertaining to that guys beloved Israel. I wrote nothing about political correctness.

I think you missed the point. The point of the story was, principles may be more important than words and more important than personal interest. I couldn't care less if the story was about a liberal or conservative, or about a jew or a hottentot. I could just as easily have told a story about Harry Truman. In fact I could tell several.

At the beginning of his political career Truman was part of the Pendergast machine in Kansas City Missouri. Years later, Pendergast died in disgrace after serving time in prison for failing to pay income taxes on graft money. Truman was one of the few prominent Democrats to attend the funeral, even though his most trusted advisers tried to stop him, and warned him that it would hurt his career. He didn't care, he stuck to his old friend and mentor to the end.

On another occasion, while President, he threatened to commit mayhem on a newspaper man who criticized his daughter's singing. As the music was a public performance, and the man was a professional critic, he was within his rights. Once again, Truman's advisers told him to keep quiet but he went ahead and sent out an open letter to the papers, saying there wasn't a father in the country who wouldn't back him up.

There is another story about Truman and his daughter. She heard him use the word "manure" in conversation, and asked her mother if she couldn't get him to use the more genteel "fertilizer". Bess said " it took me 20 years to get him to say 'manure' ".

I don't think old "give 'em hell Harry" was ever politically correct in the modern sense.

 

[Stearmen]

Copper. Now it is simply Cop.

 

[Fading Fast]

Lizzie - thank you for great information on the attitudes within political groups toward their names in the GE all delivered in a non-bias way - I knew you would know the details.

For about the hundredth time, I'm going to emphasize how there must be way for you to either profit (if you want to) or just contribute to the knowledge base of our society by capturing all the Golden Era knowledge you have (and not just facts, but tone, passions, context, atmosphere - which are all harder to find than facts) in a book or other data source. What you know is valuable and unique - especially for it to all be in one place (your head).

 

[LizzieMaine]

On another occasion, while President, he threatened to commit mayhem on a newspaper man who criticized his daughter's singing. As the music was a public performance, and the man was a professional critic, he was within his rights. Once again, Truman's advisers told him to keep quiet but he went ahead and sent out an open letter to the papers, saying there wasn't a father in the country who wouldn't back him up.

And that letter was no "It may interest you to know, sir..." reprimand. HST closed it out by warning the critic that if he ever met him in person, that worthy gentleman of the press would "need a beefsteak for black eyes, and a supporter for down below."

It's hard to imagine any handler-ridden politician doing that, but when the story broke, it endeared Harry all the more to the ordinary Joe Blows of America -- who decided that this was a guy they could get behind at election time, instead of that stiff, starchy Tom Dewey and his man-on-the-wedding-cake moustache.

Harry didn't mince words about anything, and he didn't become more refined in his old age. In his autobiography, "Plain Speaking," completed shortly before his death, he had a lot to say about his old enemy Douglas MacArthur. "I fired him because he wouldn't respect the authority of the president. I didn't fire him because he was a dumb SOB, although he was, because that's not against the law for generals. If it was, half to three-quarters of them would be in jail." And there was more: "MacArthur was always playacting...he was wearing those damn sunglasses of his and a shirt that was unbuttoned and a cap that had a lot of hardware. I never did understand, an old man like that and a five star general to boot, and he went around dressed like a nineteen year old second lieutenant. But I overlooked his getup and we arranged a meeting. I got there on time, but he was forty-five minutes late.... When he walked in I took one look at him and said 'Now you look here. I've come halfway around the world to meet you, but don't worry about that. I want you to know I don't give a good g-d what you do or think about Harry Truman, but don't you ever keep your commander-in-chief waiting again. Is that clear?"

"Plain Speaking" is the best book ever written about an American politician, and also the most consistently entertaining. Harry still gives 'em hell, after all these years.

 

[HudsonHawk]

I think you missed the point. The point of the story was, principles may be more important than words and more important than personal interest. I couldn't care less if the story was about a liberal or conservative, or about a jew or a hottentot. I could just as easily have told a story about Harry Truman. In fact I could tell several.

At the beginning of his political career Truman was part of the Pendergast machine in Kansas City Missouri. Years later, Pendergast died in disgrace after serving time in prison for failing to pay income taxes on graft money. Truman was one of the few prominent Democrats to attend the funeral, even though his most trusted advisers tried to stop him, and warned him that it would hurt his career. He didn't care, he stuck to his old friend and mentor to the end.

On another occasion, while President, he threatened to commit mayhem on a newspaper man who criticized his daughter's singing. As the music was a public performance, and the man was a professional critic, he was within his rights. Once again, Truman's advisers told him to keep quiet but he went ahead and sent out an open letter to the papers, saying there wasn't a father in the country who wouldn't back him up.

There is another story about Truman and his daughter. She heard him use the word "manure" in conversation, and asked her mother if she couldn't get him to use the more genteel "fertilizer". Bess said " it took me 20 years to get him to say 'manure' ".

I don't think old "give 'em hell Harry" was ever politically correct in the modern sense.

And none of those examples are HST *not* being politically correct in the modern sense. You seem to think "politically correct" = no conviction. That's not what it means. "Political correctness" is simply trying not offend groups of people just because you can.

 

[LizzieMaine]

And none of those examples are HST *not* being politically correct in the modern sense. You seem to think "politically correct" = no conviction. That's not what it means. "Political correctness" is simply trying not offend groups of people just because you can.

I think a lot of people confuse "plain speaking" with "not being politically correct." Plain speakers avoid euphemisms -- they say "Joe died," not "Joe passed away." Or they say "Joe is a horse's a**," not "Joe is somewhat less than flexible." That's not the same as complaining and whining that members of a minority group now prefer to be called by a different term than the one you grew up calling them. "African-American" is not a politically-correct euphemism, it's simply members of a group deciding what they themselves prefer to be called instead of accepting whatever term persons outside their group decide to call them.

As far as "Hyphenated-American" terms go, there is nothing particularly recent or "politically correct" about these. They were in common use in the Era -- you could go to any urban ethnic neighborhood and find your "Polish-American Clubs" and your "German-American Societies" and your "Irish-American Brotherhoods" and your "Sino-American Friendship Movements" and your Franco-American and Italio-American and Latin-American newspapers. One of the most popular ethnic radio programs in New York during the Era was "The Jewish-American Board for Peace and Justice." And on and on and on. The "Americanism" movement of the thirties gave these sorts of terms a major boost, and they were widely used and accepted. Ethnic pride was a defining trait of many second-generation groups in the Era -- and working-class ethnic neighborhoods in cities maintained their distinctive identities quite fiercely. It wasn't until the era of homogenized postwar suburbia that these distinctions started to fade, when it became, you should pardon the expression, "politically incorrect" to be anything but a member of the bland Miracle-Whipped middle class.

Even before this, "Afro-American" was in in wide use -- it became popular as far back as the 1910s as a more dignified alternative to "Negro" or "colored," and became very popular in the twenties in Garveyite circles. It was still used in this way as recently as the sixties, when Malcolm X formed his "Organization of Afro-American Unity."

 

[Stanley Doble]

And none of those examples are HST *not* being politically correct in the modern sense. You seem to think "politically correct" = no conviction. That's not what it means. "Political correctness" is simply trying not offend groups of people just because you can.

Politically correct is a hipster name for a mealy mouthed twerp. Hope that is plain enough for you.

I go by the old motto that a gentleman never offends anyone unintentionally.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Politically correct is a hipster name for a mealy mouthed twerp. Hope that is plain enough for you.

It's as plain as it is incorrect.

I go by the old motto that a gentleman never offends anyone unintentionally.

I go by the motto that one never does intentionally. But your mileage may vary.

 

[ChiTownScion]

Harry still gives 'em hell, after all these years.

"I don't give 'em hell. I tell the truth on 'em and they think it's hell."

But to really understand Harry Truman, you have to understand the role that Freemasonry played in the man's life. He was initiated, passed, and raised when he was a dirt farmer. He became master of his own lodge, District Deputy Grand Master, and in 1940, Grand Master of Ancient Free and Accepted Masons in his state of Missouri. He later stated that was the greatest honor he was ever bestowed, because it was an honor bestowed by his brothers.

My favorite Truman story took place during the '48 campaign. One of the crew members of the presidential yacht was scheduled to be raised (made a Master Mason) in his home lodge in Beech Grove, Indiana. Amid great secrecy, HST and several of his Secret Service detail, left the campaign train in Indianapolis and went to the small lodge. The Secret Service men had to leave their side arms outside of the lodge room per custom: Harry stated that if he wasn't safe among his Masonic brothers, he wasn't safe anywhere. After the ceremony, the President of the United States presented the young man with a Masonic ring- a gift from his family.

For further reading on the subject of HST and his Masonic life: Brother Truman: The Masonic Life and Philosophy of Harry S. Truman, by Allen E. Roberts. (Anchor, 1985)

 

[Fading Fast]

As others know, US Presidents and Masons have a long connection. Despite having read books and watched several documentaries on the Free Masons, I don't feel I truly understand either its success or its meaning to its members.

Intellectually, I understand that it was an important society in America and very meaningful to its members because that is what every historical reference says - and I respect that and don't doubt it at all - but I don't emotionally or viscerally understand it. I get the Brooklyn Doggers - their meaning to their fans, their impact on America - at both the intellectual and emotional level, but not the Free Masons.

That said, I also love seeing the Free Mason lodges that still exist as they are, usually, architecturally beautiful and, sometimes, one of the few buildings of their scale and from their era that are still around in a community.

 

[Mr Oldschool]

My uncle, my father and I had a conversation last night at my family's Christmas get-together about how my dad in the 50's used to call anybody with a beard "beaver". He didn't remember doing so, but he said he did remember his mom saying it all the time and that it was pretty common in the 50's when beards weren't.