Taking my Chesterfield coat to the tailor

[larry bird]

Good morning gents,

I'm moving from Arizona to England on Monday and need to sort out a few things before I catch my flight.

I've just purchased a Chesterfield coat from Banana Republic. Though it's far from haut couture, I've only just graduated university and wasn't keen on spending more than $500 on a topcoat. I reckon a few of the Americans may already be familiar with this coat as Chesterfields seem to be much rarer here, with few retailers selling coats of this style.

If anyone should fancy a look:
http://www.bananarepublic.com/browse...0404&cid=43050

Question:
The 'railroad' stitching at the cuffs and bottom trim, must it be four lines or would one sometimes find three? I ask as I believe the coat (smaller size) which I returned had four, whereas the one I presently own has three.

With respect to cuffs length, obviously one wants the coat to conceal the articles beneath, though there is naturally a point at which the coat is simply too long. The cuffs, with arms at sides, currently rest just above the peak at which the thumb and index finger join. Is this alright or should I have it shortened just a bit, to fall between the wrist and the aforementioned 'peak'?

In the American ads I've seen for Chesterfields, the man is generally in a suit (though no jacket seems to be present underneath the topcoat), but is sometimes in relatively casual dress. I reckon this point will differ depending on ones country of origin: can this coat be worn without a suit jacket and can it be worn on a relatively daily basis if one is in a suit, heading off to the office? The point of view from my American friends seems to be that it can be worn regularly, either dressed up or dressed down (just a touch). Whereas my English friends insist this coat is strictly meant for formal occasions or a night out, but not to be worn during the day.

I'd appreciate any advice or suggestions. This is the most expensive coat I've ever owned and wish not to regret later any mistakes I make with it now.

Nota bene: I'm an economist and not someone who keenly follows fashion. I feel I should disclose this as I posed similar questions to a similar discussion group with rather crass comments. I should suspect that any who fancies fedoras would have a considerably more tact.

 

[Edward]

There are many more knowledgeable than myself on here, but from the sounds of it and what I can see in the picture, I think what you have is actually a Covert coat, rather than a Chesterfield. It looks great, though.

These coats were originally cut to be groundskeepers' coats - if I'm right and it is indeed a Covert (as the "railroad stitching" suggests to me), they would also oriinally have had large pockets inside to carry a packed lunch. This detail seems sometimes to be omitted on the more affordable contemporary versions. I have read two different stories as to the presence of those "railroad" stitches. One is that they were to prevent fraying when the groundsman - not being able to afford a tailor - cut them to length himself. The other (which I believe to be true) is that it prevented a run from developing if the end of the cuff got snagged on vegetation. I don't believe there was ever a uniform requirement as to what was the "proper" number of rows of stitching. Coverts later came to be adopted by the middle and upper classes, no longer the preserve of the serving classes.

In origin, it seems to me that they were obviously a work-coat, and hence quite casual (though of course what was casual then is rather dressed now...). I most commonly see them being worn here in London in either a "smart-casual" setting (generally no suit jacket beneath) or over a suit in the Autumn / Spring when a full winter coat would be too heavy. They certainly work very well for the latter purpose IMO.

 

[H.Johnson]

A Chesterfield coat (named after the peer, not the working-class Derbyshire town) is indeed a formal garment, the covert coat is the opposite. Edward has it about right. The photograph appears to show a type of Chesterfield coat, although modern versions I see tend not to be rigid in terms of details.

 

[larry bird]

Cheers mates.

So what I've got is a bit of a dressed-down covert-Chesterfield hybrid?

Do you reckon I should treat it more as a top coat or a coat of its own to be worn over simply a shirt and tie? It feels a bit thicker than a sports coat, but by no means is it a coat suitable for an English winter (Arizona maybe, but not the North). Would it be daft of me to wear a suit jacket under neath it? I'll need to have it tailored accordingly, as the cuffs and sleeves are a bit too big if it's worn on it's own. Over a sports coat/suit jacket, it's a rather nice fit.

I had thought about waiting to get one until Monday when I arrive, but I've not seen anything for less than 300 quid. With current rates, this one works out to be a bit below that.

I've been doing a bit of research about coverts and Chesterfields for about three weeks now (I had never actually seen such a coat until I noticed Harry Pearce always wears one in Spooks). There seems to be quite a bit of confusion in America about which is which. I did read about the large interior pocket. The story I read said that the covert was design for horse riding and hunting game, with the interior pocket meant to be large enough to accomodate a recently killed bird. The pocket on mine is spacious, but by no means could one (nor would one want to really) keep a bird in it.

I hope I've prepared well enough not to freeze my nadgers off over the next few months.

 

[Edward]

I lean to the opinion that in order to be properly dressed - hatever the season - one should have soem form of topcoat on. This may mean a sports jacket in the Summer, but in theory (weather permitting, obviously) one should always have a top layer over a suit. I think your coat would be fine for either, really....

HJ, I'm fairly clear on a Covert, but what are the exact signifiers of a Chesterfield? I thought I had read soemwhere that a "proper" Chesterfield should be DB, but that doesn't seem to tally entirely with what I have seen on sale.

 

[H.Johnson]

Edward,

I wouldn't claim to be an authority (on anything!) but I understand that a chesterfield coat is generally accepted to be a velvet-collared, single-breasted overcoat with concealed buttons reaching to the knees and is usually in dark (i.e. formal) colours). That's what the above image looks like to me.

HJ, I'm fairly clear on a Covert, but what are the exact signifiers of a Chesterfield? I thought I had read soemwhere that a "proper" Chesterfield should be DB, but that doesn't seem to tally entirely with what I have seen on sale.

 

[larry bird]

I appreciate the commentary.

Here's to hoping someone's hiring in January.

 

[Edward]

Edward,

I wouldn't claim to be an authority (on anything!) but I understand that a chesterfield coat is generally accepted to be a velvet-collared, single-breasted overcoat with concealed buttons reaching to the knees and is usually in dark (i.e. formal) colours). That's what the above image looks like to me.

Seems there's a fair degree of crossover, then. I do like a velvet collar on a covert, though I know it is not a core part of the generic design.

 

[bonnieprince]

I am not familiar with the history of British fashion, but in America Chesterfields were traditionally worn with a tux. Today they are worn with a suit to work as well as a tux. I see commuters wearing them over their suits to work daily when it is cold enough.

I wanted to buy a Chesterfield in the past, but they are only made in lightweight materials today. They just aren't made for winter the way they used to be, as are most overcoats of today. I've had discussions with tailors about this, and they explained to me why. They said that modern topcoats are designed for people to go from the house to a car (maybe a train afterward) and then to work. People just don't spend extended periods outside in their dressy clothes anymore.

The old Chesterfields that I've seen were made of heavy dark grey tweeds with a nice herringbone pattern. The black velvet collar was de rigeur, but I have seen pictures of them in single and double breasted variants going back to the 1920's.

You can see Billy Zane wearing a Chesterfield with his tux in Titanic. It is the coat he puts on Rose as the ship is sinking.