Tackling the block... and flange

[deadlyhandsome]

I'm bumping up this old thread of Alan's because it came up in searching I'm doing to get a better grasp on matching crown blocks and brim flanges.
It's a great little tutorial, Alan, and the comments after would have been nice to see prior to getting one of my home made blocks stuck inside a hat and learning the hard way. I had to carefully rip the sweat stitches and take it out with the block, then put it back in.
Maybe I should be posting this in Ask a Question, Get an Answer, but Alan's matching (or mismatching) of blocking components segues into what I'm trying to understand. A size 7 1/8 crown block should measure apprx. 22 1/2" around. A block that measurement should be stamped 7 1/8. Will the inside measurement of a flange block stamped 7 1/8 actually measure more than 22 1/2", with extra room for the felt already calculated in? If so, are tolerances loose enough so various felt weights and finishes can all be done on the same set? Or does a hatter have to try, by trial and error, to match the blocks and flanges to the particular hat he's working on?
I have two blocks on the way now, though I'm also still fabricating crown blocks of my own. Both are 7s, which I thought would work inside of my own 7 1/8 finished hats. I also thought I could block 7 1/8 stripped hats by adding thickness to size 7 blocks with another felt. Ermatinger's book gave a name to this, which escapes me at the moment. He made it sound like a very common practice back "in the day". It raises another question I have, if anyone here can answer it. Does this mean a block can be used for two or three sizes greater by adding multiple felts?
My most pressing question is the flange size one though. There's a flange at the Bay of 7 1/4 and a 2 3/4 brim width. I'm considering an offer on it. Could I only use it on crowns blocked 7 1/4., or could I use it on 7 1/8 crowns? Might it actually be exactly what I want for a 7 1/8 crown if the hat is trimmed, like Alan's use of blocks numbered consecutively?
I'm using the size that I wear to help me understand these things, but figure that from there I will also understand it related to all hat and block sizes.

Have you read through this thread?

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/buying-hat-blocks-what-does-one-need-to-know.74078/



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[Hat and Rehat]

Have you read through this thread?

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/buying-hat-blocks-what-does-one-need-to-know.74078/



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Thank you. I didn't find that one with the search parameters I used. I might have been too precise. I asked specifically about matching crown and brim block sizes. I hope this will answer a lot of my questions. I might have to ask my search questions in several ways too. This isnt the first time there was information here that I needed help to find. Thanks again!

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[Hat and Rehat]

Have you read through this thread?

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/buying-hat-blocks-what-does-one-need-to-know.74078/



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Did you notice that I took your earlier advice to heart as well?
Even though I believe I'll sometimes be using my own blocks, as a stopgap measure if nothing else, I'm bringing commercially manufactured equipment into the fold early as well. It will help me standardize what I make. I was going blithely ahead giving no thought to it. I could have, and probably would have, ended up with a set of hat making tools useless except as a set. I'd have reinvented the wheel every step of the way, blocks, flanges, spinner, etc..
Then my wheel would have only run on it's own track.

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[hatsandcanes]

I have a new upturn brim flange being made for me. I have read everything related to flanges on the forum and have come up short on using one to fix wavy and unkept brims. I ordered a 2.5 inch upturn; however, the majority of my hats are 2 3/8”.
I know the flange has a groove around the bottom so I am guessing that you put Some kind of cloth over it and tie it up tight to keep it in place while it drys.

Any advice would be very appreciated,
Randy

 

[jlee562]

See: scientific hat finishing
https://archive.org/details/scientifichatfin00erma/page/72/mode/2up

Well, I think most folks use an iron instead of a sand bag. But yes, you place a clean press cloth over the brim and tie in place with a blocking cord.

 

[belfastboy]

I have a new upturn brim flange being made for me. I have read everything related to flanges on the forum and have come up short on using one to fix wavy and unkept brims. I ordered a 2.5 inch upturn; however, the majority of my hats are 2 3/8”.
I know the flange has a groove around the bottom so I am guessing that you put Some kind of cloth over it and tie it up tight to keep it in place while it drys.

Any advice would be very appreciated,
Randy

My blocks are marked 2 5/8" inch and I have used them for brims 2 1/2" to 2 3/4" with no ill effect. I does affect slightly the degree of upturn on the brim. I use a 100% cotton muslin of a fairly heavy weight but not quite canvas duck weight. I wet it and cover the underside of the hat inserted into the flange with the block still inside the hat. Cover with the cloth, wetted thoroughly. And, this is the critical part: smooth the cloth out so all the wrinkles and puckers are out of it. Then I attach the cord to the groove in the flange and snug it up, then pull the cloth as tight as I can get it again making sure the puckers/wrinkles are smoothed out. With my fingers I massage the felt itself to make sure there are no wrinkles in the felt itself. Give the cord a final snugging up then I give a good pressing with a hot iron (on the cotton setting). The only time I have had a problem is if I did a shitty job of smoothing the cloth out and it has transferred the wrinkles/waves into the felt....usually in the area of the brim where it meets the crown. It is fixable but it takes more work as I have now set the wrinkles with the steam and pressing. I have learned to do a better job getting the wrinkles out before hand. I leave it overnight to dry. I hope this all makes sense.

 

[hatsandcanes]

My blocks are marked 2 5/8" inch and I have used them for brims 2 1/2" to 2 3/4" with no ill effect. I does affect slightly the degree of upturn on the brim. I use a 100% cotton muslin of a fairly heavy weight but not quite canvas duck weight. I wet it and cover the underside of the hat inserted into the flange with the block still inside the hat. Cover with the cloth, wetted thoroughly. And, this is the critical part: smooth the cloth out so all the wrinkles and puckers are out of it. Then I attach the cord to the groove in the flange and snug it up, then pull the cloth as tight as I can get it again making sure the puckers/wrinkles are smoothed out. With my fingers I massage the felt itself to make sure there are no wrinkles in the felt itself. Give the cord a final snugging up then I give a good pressing with a hot iron (on the cotton setting). The only time I have had a problem is if I did a shitty job of smoothing the cloth out and it has transferred the wrinkles/waves into the felt....usually in the area of the brim where it meets the crown. It is fixable but it takes more work as I have now set the wrinkles with the steam and pressing. I have learned to do a better job getting the wrinkles out before hand. I leave it overnight to dry. I hope this all makes sense.

My blocks are marked 2 5/8" inch and I have used them for brims 2 1/2" to 2 3/4" with no ill effect. I does affect slightly the degree of upturn on the brim. I use a 100% cotton muslin of a fairly heavy weight but not quite canvas duck weight. I wet it and cover the underside of the hat inserted into the flange with the block still inside the hat. Cover with the cloth, wetted thoroughly. And, this is the critical part: smooth the cloth out so all the wrinkles and puckers are out of it. Then I attach the cord to the groove in the flange and snug it up, then pull the cloth as tight as I can get it again making sure the puckers/wrinkles are smoothed out. With my fingers I massage the felt itself to make sure there are no wrinkles in the felt itself. Give the cord a final snugging up then I give a good pressing with a hot iron (on the cotton setting). The only time I have had a problem is if I did a shitty job of smoothing the cloth out and it has transferred the wrinkles/waves into the felt....usually in the area of the brim where it meets the crown. It is fixable but it takes more work as I have now set the wrinkles with the steam and pressing. I have learned to do a better job getting the wrinkles out before hand. I leave it overnight to dry. I hope this all makes sense.

See my following post and thank you so much,
Randy

 

[hatsandcanes]

Thank you so much for the detailed use of a flange. That was how I thought the process would go but your description was awesome. I only plan to use it for minor touch ups but with your helpful advice, I may try more complex use. I would really like to restore some vintage fedoras just to get the feel of hat making. I already have run out of storage room for my hats. When does one have too many hats?
Thank you,
Randy

 

[belfastboy]

My limit is imposed by storage space ...which I have reached. One thing that has been helpful to me is looking for beater western hats and using them as learner felts. I deconstruct them and use them as if they were new felts. I have picked up some decent ones even in my size 7 3/8" for under $40 with shipping. Even if I screw them up I figure it is still a cheap way to learn. I also found some 'seconds' from a millinery supply house in the UK. They are light weight, low crowned but wide brimmed (women's hats) for about $12 each shipped. On most of them the flaws cannot be spotted. They have sold most of them but have a few colours left. Great practice felts.