Tackling the block... and flange

[jwalls]

Beautiful sequence, Alan. I also don't have a sandbag press but I learned something from my friend at W&W. Your flange should have an indentation near the flat side going all around. You slightly wet a fairly long cloth (Just as you have it in one of your pictures --I use a piece of an old cotton, white t-shirt--) and put it over the brim. Make sure it covers the flange fully. Then using cord, you tight the whole shebang. The cord goes in the indentation. Then you pull the cloth until is nice and tight, leave it for a couple of minutes and voila. There is a special knot "the hatter's knot" that you use to tight the cord. I haven't learned it yet. Have to see Major Moore for that. Hope this makes sense.

You can use a bungy type cord on the flange, but you need the cord with a hatter's knot to tie the body to the block when making a new hat.

 

[Shohei]

Very impressive and informative, thank you Alan!

 

[delectans]

Very nicely done, Alan, you brave and resourceful soul!

 

[alanfgag]

Very nicely done, Alan, you brave and resourceful soul!

Thanks AL, and all, for your comments. Much of these techniques are relatively simple, intuitive and straight forward. The biggest challenge is knowing when to stop before unwanted results or damage are encountered. It's kind of like asking a fellow subway rider for directions to the Museum of Modern Art and getting the answer "Oh, that's easy... just get off at the stop before I do."

Take it... but take it easy!

 

[feltfan]

Thanks for this, Alan. My Borsalino roller had been in its box since the 50s.
I unrolled it and steamed it and it smoothed and formed by itself. I recommend
people try this, especially with fine quality hats, before moving on to more extreme
measures.

When I do move on to more extreme measures, I usually leave the sweatband in place,
rather than rolled out. Rolling out the sweatband can add stress to the edge of the band,
where the leather can rip. It seems to me easier on the leather to leave it in. Not an issue
for Alan's hat, with its fabric sweatband. I do slip stiff paper with a hand torn edge
between the felt and sweatband and poking above the sweatband, to make sure the
sweatband doesn't leave an impression on the felt.

These are all "hacks" compared to what a real hatter would do...

 

[alanfgag]

Excellent additions - thank you for sharing. The cautions about inverting the sweatband can't be over emphasized.

I should add that this is my first time using the block and flange, and I would not have used the block at all had it not been a comfortable fit. Smoothing the crown is a relatively easy task with most hats - steam and a little finger pressure will often suffice. My main goal was to set the flange, a somewhat more difficult task, especially with a very soft felt.

 

[bowlerman]

I do slip stiff paper with a hand torn edge
between the felt and sweatband and poking above the sweatband, to make sure the
sweatband doesn't leave an impression on the felt.

These are all "hacks" compared to what a real hatter would do...

I wish I had tried that with my Mallory torino derby. The sweatband made a striking impression while reblocking, and the little sweatband bow gave the felt an awful backbump. I was able to alleviate some of that, but ended up severely shrinking the leather during the process (totally by accident-- I think it got too hot?). I wonder if I can significantly stretch the leather enough while using the paper to give it another try?

 

[Aureliano]

Alan, I know you understood me but I'm a visual person. Hope you don't mind me adding this to your thread. This is what I meant about the flange, cord, etc. The cloth is a little wet, I find that helps keep things tight. My Stetson Belmont--the one with the wafer edge-- needed some brim work.

 

[DRB]

Aureliano: very cleaver. I have never seen a wet cloth used before. I'll have to keep that in mind.

 

[alanfgag]

Great illustration, Ale... thanks for including it. I'm not quite clear where the groove holding the cord is in this set-up... is it on the flange stand rather than the flange itself?

 

[Aureliano]

It's on the flange. What happened here is that the flange I used with the hat doesn't have holes in the other side to sit on the pegs of my stand. I had to put another one with holes there and the other on top.

 

[bowlerman]

That works. I especially dig the Stetson straightedge ruler!

 

[bowlerman]

Well I tried the folded paper method, and there's almost no sign of any sweatband impressions on the felt anymore. Thanks for the advice!
Still, it just doesn't wan't to hold a stretch. I put it on this afternoon after it had been sitting on the block all night, and it felt great for about 3 minutes, then the leather contracted again and it is tight. Ugh. This may have to end up in the hands of a pro after all.

 

[Art Fawcett]

This is what it should look like Alan. The cording can be a simple "hang mans knot" and the groove is near the bottom of the flange.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Well I tried the folded paper method, and there's almost no sign of any sweatband impressions on the felt anymore. Thanks for the advice!
Still, it just doesn't wan't to hold a stretch. I put it on this afternoon after it had been sitting on the block all night, and it felt great for about 3 minutes, then the leather contracted again and it is tight. Ugh. This may have to end up in the hands of a pro after all.

I had something similar happen with a hat I made last year and ended up having to replace the sweatband for it to hold so be prepared for that Sir. Mine was a featherweight designed as a traveling hat ( VERY thin sweatband) and the thinness ( is that a word?) is what made the difference.

 

[alanfgag]

Thanks very much Art!

 

[Aureliano]

especially dig the Stetson straightedge ruler!

 

[Aureliano]

This is what it should look like Alan. The cording can be a simple "hang mans knot" and the groove is near the bottom of the flange.

Yup! mine looks weird 'cause the flange with the hat doesn't have a grove (odd) so I stacked it on top of another one that does and used a bigger cloth to drape all the way down.

 

[Hat and Rehat]

I'm bumping up this old thread of Alan's because it came up in searching I'm doing to get a better grasp on matching crown blocks and brim flanges.
It's a great little tutorial, Alan, and the comments after would have been nice to see prior to getting one of my home made blocks stuck inside a hat and learning the hard way. I had to carefully rip the sweat stitches and take it out with the block, then put it back in.
Maybe I should be posting this in Ask a Question, Get an Answer, but Alan's matching (or mismatching) of blocking components segues into what I'm trying to understand. A size 7 1/8 crown block should measure apprx. 22 1/2" around. A block that measurement should be stamped 7 1/8. Will the inside measurement of a flange block stamped 7 1/8 actually measure more than 22 1/2", with extra room for the felt already calculated in? If so, are tolerances loose enough so various felt weights and finishes can all be done on the same set? Or does a hatter have to try, by trial and error, to match the blocks and flanges to the particular hat he's working on?
I have two blocks on the way now, though I'm also still fabricating crown blocks of my own. Both are 7s, which I thought would work inside of my own 7 1/8 finished hats. I also thought I could block 7 1/8 stripped hats by adding thickness to size 7 blocks with another felt. Ermatinger's book gave a name to this, which escapes me at the moment. He made it sound like a very common practice back "in the day". It raises another question I have, if anyone here can answer it. Does this mean a block can be used for two or three sizes greater by adding multiple felts?
My most pressing question is the flange size one though. There's a flange at the Bay of 7 1/4 and a 2 3/4 brim width. I'm considering an offer on it. Could I only use it on crowns blocked 7 1/4., or could I use it on 7 1/8 crowns? Might it actually be exactly what I want for a 7 1/8 crown if the hat is trimmed, like Alan's use of blocks numbered consecutively?
I'm using the size that I wear to help me understand these things, but figure that from there I will also understand it related to all hat and block sizes.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Please expand for answer

I'm bumping up this old thread of Alan's because it came up in searching I'm doing to get a better grasp on matching crown blocks and brim flanges.
It's a great little tutorial, Alan, and the comments after would have been nice to see prior to getting one of my home made blocks stuck inside a hat and learning the hard way. I had to carefully rip the sweat stitches and take it out with the block, then put it back in.
Maybe I should be posting this in Ask a Question, Get an Answer, but Alan's matching (or mismatching) of blocking components segues into what I'm trying to understand. A size 7 1/8 crown block should measure apprx. 22 1/2" around.

No, it should measure 22 3/4" giving 1/4" for the sweatband

A block that measurement should be stamped 7 1/8. Will the inside measurement of a flange block stamped 7 1/8 actually measure more than 22 1/2", with extra room for the felt already calculated in?

Not always, some do, some don't. Measure always

If so, are tolerances loose enough so various felt weights and finishes can all be done on the same set? Or does a hatter have to try, by trial and error, to match the blocks and flanges to the particular hat he's working on?

yes


I have two blocks on the way now, though I'm also still fabricating crown blocks of my own. Both are 7s, which I thought would work inside of my own 7 1/8 finished hats. I also thought I could block 7 1/8 stripped hats by adding thickness to size 7 blocks with another felt. Ermatinger's book gave a name to this, which escapes me at the moment. He made it sound like a very common practice back "in the day". It raises another question I have, if anyone here can answer it. Does this mean a block can be used for two or three sizes greater by adding multiple felts?

yes


My most pressing question is the flange size one though. There's a flange at the Bay of 7 1/4 and a 2 3/4 brim width. I'm considering an offer on it. Could I only use it on crowns blocked 7 1/4., or could I use it on 7 1/8 crowns? Might it actually be exactly what I want for a 7 1/8 crown if the hat is trimmed, like Alan's use of blocks numbered consecutively?

After finishing out a hat I usually use the next size up for final flanging so as to not hurt the ribbon. All of this is trial and error so keep at it.

I'm using the size that I wear to help me understand these things, but figure that from there I will also understand it related to all hat and block sizes.