Tab Collar Shirts Still Available?

[herringbonekid]

What I really don't get is why modern shirting makers do not produce these kinds of fabrics anymore.

shirt fabrics have got thinner and smoother due to the same meme you hear repeated by the manufacturers of super 180s suiting fabric: "men want soft, luxury fabric, not the heavy, coarse fabrics their grandfathers had".

as for the designs, i'm sure they could be done, even the ones that have the fancy raised areas. it just needs the enthusiastic designer (with money) to get these things back into production.

 

[Rudie]

Well, I wonder why they ever got out of production. Aesthetically they are far superior to bland poplin or oxford shirts. So why? Because all modern designers except the guys from Sugar Cane and Ralph Lauren should have become plumbers instead? I just don't get it.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

I think I've asked this before but is there a specific name for this fabric? I've heard Dobby stripe (woven?) and calico(printed?) used by repro manufacturers. Any other leads? Fancy stripes is a bit vague...

PS: Because buttoned shirts (just like suits) became Business wardrobe which equals to conservative/boring. This leads to customers who are rather cowardly in their choice of shirtings.
Casual shirt today means to put a BIG FAT PRINT of some randoms words and images on it.

SPORTSWEAR DENIM APPAREL SINCE 1968 YACHT CLUB MONACO POLO SUMMER BEACH RESORT COLLEGE

 

[Rudie]

I have heard dobby as well. Calico is always printed I believe.

 

[herringbonekid]

I think I've asked this before but is there a specific name for this fabric? I've heard Dobby stripe (woven?) and calico(printed?) used by repro manufacturers. Any other leads?

i think the vintage ones with the raised stitching might be jacquard loomed. i don't know much about shirt fabric terminology. i just know what i like. more here:

http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/showthread.php?86994-Common-Shirt-Stripes-Defined

 

[herringbonekid]

Well, I wonder why they ever got out of production. Aesthetically they are far superior to bland poplin or oxford shirts. So why? Because all modern designers except the guys from Sugar Cane and Ralph Lauren should have become plumbers instead? I just don't get it.

similar reason as the demise of the Edwardian boot: fashions change, aesthetics change, people want something 'new and modern' and before you know it older, more complex methods of production get abandoned and lost. there has to be a reason to go back and revive out-dated styles / technology. it takes people like us banging on about it over and over before people sit up and listen.

example: apparently Molloy and Sons were only producing light weight Donegal tweed for the American market before Michael Alden of the London Lounge gave them a prod and said "i want to commission a proper heavy old-fashioned Donegal tweed again" much to their surprise (money helps considerably to re-open old doors).

 

[Claudio]

Although I appreciate old vintage shirting fabrics, one cannot overlook the fact that they somewhat look like pijama fabrics. Since you are talking about remaking them new (teh fabrics), I think you need to look at it not frpm a 'vintage afficionado' point of view but from a sell-able, money making business point of view. Thick, rough fabrics in pale colours like that are very hard to match (esthetically) if you are to sell them to the modern gent, are too heavy, and cannot justify a large production (they would not sell). Unfortunatley/fortunatley tastes change over time. Again, I personally like them as a historic piece but would I ever purchase a new shirt with these? Not a chance, sorry, would loose the 'vintage' charm they have.

 

[simonc]

For the same reason its very hard to get true wabash fabric.

 

[Rudie]

Although I appreciate old vintage shirting fabrics, one cannot overlook the fact that they somewhat look like pijama fabrics. Since you are talking about remaking them new (teh fabrics), I think you need to look at it not frpm a 'vintage afficionado' point of view but from a sell-able, money making business point of view. Thick, rough fabrics in pale colours like that are very hard to match (esthetically) if you are to sell them to the modern gent, are too heavy, and cannot justify a large production (they would not sell). Unfortunatley/fortunatley tastes change over time. Again, I personally like them as a historic piece but would I ever purchase a new shirt with these? Not a chance, sorry, would loose the 'vintage' charm they have.

I am not sure your assessment is correct, Claudio. Of course, these designs do not go well with charcoal Super 100s suits. But they all would look awesome with jeans, which most people wear all the time. Surely there must be a market outside charcoal suit wearers?

 

[herringbonekid]

Although I appreciate old vintage shirting fabrics, one cannot overlook the fact that they somewhat look like pijama fabrics.

i don't think i've ever turned down a vintage shirt because it looked too much like pyjama fabric. besides, bold stripes aren't the whole point.
there is also subtle design and texture that i don't see in todays shirtings. e.g.:

 

[Claudio]

I understand the point about them being more casual wear (jeans), admittingly I was looking at them from a more formal point of view. That said, its the pale greys, skys and beige that I would not see a market for (again, as a business investment). When I had a vintage shop (15 years ago so different times) I use to find plenty of pale shaded dead stock shirts much like these (50's, 60's not earlier) and would have such a hell of a time to sell them as customers would not like the pale shades of them. If I were to find them vintage, then I can see me buying them to wear with denim and boots for example, but if I had the same pattern and fabric on a new shirt, dont think I would bother.

 

[simonc]

Well HBK, I guess the lesson for today is one man's drool is another man's spittle.

 

[Claudio]

don't get me wrong, I do like them but, for arguments sake, to get them remade would be a gamble IMO

 

[Rudie]

Why do you think it would be a gamble? With the right amount of marketing people tend to buy and wear the most horrible crap (Well, even without marketing; but with marketing you can sell them even worse stuff). Why shouldn't it work for good stuff when it even works for junk?

 

[Rudie]

I often get compliments for my style. That never happened until I started wearing vintage. So people do notice and appreciate when you make an effort. They just don't know how to do it themselves because the stuff is not widely available. Most men do not like to invest a lot of time for shopping and dressing. But if nice stuff was widely available they would surely grab it when being forced to go on a shopping spree by their wives.

 

[Claudio]

Why do you think it would be a gamble? With the right amount of marketing people tend to buy and wear the most horrible crap (Well, even without marketing; but with marketing you can sell them even worse stuff). Why shouldn't it work for good stuff when it even works for junk?

Yeah thats true, people buy crap with good marketing. As stated before, the colours are too pale, grey's, sky, beiges arent my personal preferences (and being in the business for a long time I have somewhat of a 'pulse' on what colours are easier to shift - in the modern market that looks back at older styles that is). Also, the thick coars cotton of yesteryears isnt something that appeals to modern tastes (as has been previously stated by someone else). Thy are lovely as vintage peices, no doubt

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

The marketing discussion is interesting. I don't agree that the shirtings look like pajamas (60s club collars though...) but I agree that 90% of modern customers have a boring taste and would rather buy a white shirt or a light blue oxford button down than anything with fancy stripes. It's not just the offerings but also the stuff that gets bought. My girlfriend has a repro brand and the calm stuff goes far better than the more extraordinary vintage inspired things.

Ralph Lauren can do this because he also sells millions of boring polo shirts to yuppies. If you don't have this core business you won't take so much risk. One has to make a living.

The denim/heritage trend could actually work in favour of the fancy patterned shirts. I saw a calico shirt (blue) at h&m last year. Some trend scout seemed to have looked at mister freedom and RRL. But indigo blue and maybe red are more likely than some paler shades.

 

[Two Types]

Here's a British supplier, Hawkins & Shepherd, but the selection of colours isn't very exciting:

Here's a pointed tab collar shirt.

hackett's version at least includes the option of stripes:

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Here is a brand that has both fancy fabrics and also a tab collar shirt...which is white:eusa_doh:
Their regular shirt collars leave much to be deisred imo. Too much spread. I found them in the Men's File magazine so they already targeted the workwear/hertitage market. Rather expensive though. For that kind of money I wouldn't compromise with the collar.

http://www.salvatorepiccolo.com/en/products-shirts/

 

[Rudie]

Targeting the workwear crowd with spread collars seems like an odd idea ...