Sword Canes...

[carebear]

Miss Neecerie,

Excellent post. It's amazing how many people never check their actual state statutes when they wonder if something is "illegal" or not. Of course, most people never wonder about the legality of things because they know they aren't a criminal to be worried about.

There is usually a bit of leeway for curios and the like. If the item is obviously simply being displayed at home even if someone notices there's probably not going to be charges or even repercussions. Depends on the cop and DA involved, of course, but they usually are sensible enough to distinguish between "possessed on the person in public" and sitting next to other antiques in an umbrella rack.

 

[carebear]

.....

 

[Jerekson]

I've got a vintage one, probably sometime from the 60's, direct from China, I believe...

 

[kenji]

For any lawyers out there...

I've always assumed that "possess" means to possess in public, as opposed to owning and keeping at home. Do the California statues really mean that a martial artist can't keep a pair of nunchaku at home or at the dojo for practice? That's pretty draconian.

In NJ, you can't possess "dangerous knives." I assume that basically means that if you look dangerous and are carrying a knife, you can be prosecuted.

 

[carebear]

For any lawyers out there...

I've always assumed that "possess" means to possess in public, as opposed to owning and keeping at home. Do the California statues really mean that a martial artist can't keep a pair of nunchaku at home or at the dojo for practice? That's pretty draconian.

In NJ, you can't possess "dangerous knives." I assume that basically means that if you look dangerous and are carrying a knife, you can be prosecuted.

There is a caveat in the statute.

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
.....
(3) The possession of a nunchaku on the premises of a school which
holds a regulatory or business license and teaches the arts of
self-defense.
(4) The manufacture of a nunchaku for sale to, or the sale of a
nunchaku to, a school which holds a regulatory or business license
and teaches the arts of self-defense.

You can have it at school, but you can't own one as a private individual. Obviously private persons possess all sorts of MA weapons and take them to tournaments and such so the law is no doubt selectively enforced. Don't look like a thug or be doing thuggish things and don't fail the "hello test" and no one but a jerk cop is going to give you a hassle.

Possession laws are pretty stupid in any event. Simple possession of anything doesn't cause harm, only actual criminal use does. And the people who would use things criminally don't care about possession offenses anyway.

A waste of ink.

 

[Viola]

My boyfriend told me it was not nice to soliticiously inquire while I was looking at the weapons regulations, whether Australia had just had "a rash of drive-by 'chuckings, perhaps ninjas on mopeds?" lol

 

[carebear]

Not to go too far afield, but the history of knife laws (to include sword canes) has a not-commonly recognized basis.

Fear of the underclass and immigrants, in short, racism.

Firearms have always been expensive, especially compared to something as simple as a knife or bludgeon. As they became more reliable, and fashion and culture removed the openly-worn sword and dagger from men's wardrobes, the better off tended to gravitate toward them for defense. This left the poor to continue to mainly rely on the blackjack and knife.

Since most criminals were "lower class" (at least by perception), those in a position to control law-making began restricting carriage of such weapons by such types, they also unintentionally instilled in Anglo-Saxon culture a distaste for such "primative" weapons. Weapons only used by "hot-blooded Latins", "blood thirsty A-rabs" and other near-savage races "just out of the jungle".

Look at the "switchblade" laws of the '50s. Those weren't a result of an actual increase in violence, nor were switchblades any more dangerous than other knives used by criminals, but were rather a result of a knee-jerk fear of the Hispanic and Italian gangs (driven by movies, the electorate has always been too-easily swayed by that medium). "12 Angry Men" is a perfect example (and indictment) of the mentality.

Asian weapons were demonized in the '60s and '70s because of public opinion from ninja movies of all things. :eusa_doh: Maybe worse, laws are still on the books restricting weapons that haven't been in use for a century, "slung shot" anyone?

Absolute nonsense.

Inexpensive handguns, the so called "Saturday Night Specials", are similarly demonized. Not because they differ in any real way from more expensive models, but rather because they are purchased and carried by the poor and minorities. Even though most are owned for the same reason as the middle and upper classes own theirs.

When you look at the sources of our laws, sometimes all you can do is shake your head.

 

[JEEP]

I tip my hat to you carebear - you just nailed it.


High regards.

Jakob

 

[Alan Eardley]

Last Friday night I saw the finest flask cane I have ever seen. The (very) old gentlemen who had it said that it had belonged to his grandfather and dated from the mid 19th Century. The flask was made from lead crystal-cut glass with a silver stopper and would have contained at least a half pint.

It was much stouter than most capsticks I have seen, was covered in leather and featured Damask-style engraving on the silver cap. He told me that his GF had a Grant S/L shotgun engraved with the same pattern - I wonder where that went!!!

Alan

Ehhh ... interesting, I guess. I think I would still prefer a flask cane. Probably get more use out of a pint of Bushmills than a blade.

Richard

 

[Dr Doran]

I once saw a sword-umbrella that I thought was quite interesting, same basic idea, and for now I'd look more plausible with an umbrella or a parasol than a cane. I can't seem to remember where I saw it, though.

Try to remember if you can. I want one.

There is a place in downtown Portland that Chucklehead took me to last year. It is a famous men's store. They had sword canes (no sword umbrellas though, unless I didn't notice one). The prices seemed very reasonable. I seem to remember a hundred dollars. I cannot recall the name of the store at the moment.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

Wow, I was illegal in California and did not know it!!

I have the sword cane seen on page 5 of the website that offers sword cane. It is the wolf's head sword cane.

http://www.loveleaf.net/ts/image/GRHK528TS.jpg

The reason I have it it is that I always wanted a wolf's head cane, a la the type that was used in the original The Wolf Man. In it, Claude Raines uses the silver cane to strike the werewolf that is attacking him. He does not realize that the werewolf is his own son (Lon Chaney, Jr.), who dies and morphs back into a human.

Being a wolfgal myself, I always wanted a cane with a wolf head on it, but the ones modeled on the original movie were way over-priced. This one was only $20 (silver colored, obviously not silver) and I like the creature's face, also the way the head felt in my hand.

The sword was something I did not particularly care to have, but it is there, so now I have my own wolf cane that happens to have a sword hidden inside it. And I bought it at a shop in California and transported it to Iowa.

It rattles a little when I use it, that's the sword inside.

Wonder if it is illegal here in Iowa?

karol

 

[carebear]

www.findlaw.com is your friend for state statutes.

Reading and maneuvering through statutes takes a bit of getting used to if you don't have a legal background.

724.4 Carrying weapons.
...
2. A person who goes armed with a knife concealed on or about the person, if the person uses the knife in the commission of a crime, commits an aggravated misdemeanor.
3. A person who goes armed with a knife concealed on or about the person, if the person does not use the knife in the commission of a crime:
a. If the knife has a blade exceeding eight inches in length, commits an aggravated misdemeanor.
b. If the knife has a blade exceeding five inches but not exceeding eight inches in length, commits a serious misdemeanor.

Couldn't find a prohibition on ownership at first glance, just carrying.

I forgot one other reference source. You can always call a reputable knife shop, they usually know the laws and are honest about them.

If the blade is cheap, you can cut or break it off. That eliminates the issue entirely.

 

[Edward]

Nice.... I've always wanted a swordstick, though alas I wouldn't risk carrying one. Ican well understand why they'd be limited. Clumsier than a sword, maybe. But so much easier to carry a concealed blade.... I reckon if you got caught carrying one these days in England you'd be very much treated as carrying an offensive weapon, especially in the current climate of kids carrying knives- some terrible things happening with kids South of the River (for the most part) these days with knives. Nowadays I don't get stopped nearly so often for random searches (now we Irish aren't the bogeymen anymore), but I still wouldn't risk it!

In terms of self defence, I'm sure I read somewhere that often (due, I imagine, to them not being always so easily drawn) that swordsticks in England were often wielded with the blade undrawn - the steel centre providing a sufficiently solid core to the stick to allow it to be used to parry away a blade in a defensive manouver.

 

[Absinthe_1900]

A better resource for information:

http://www.knifelawsonline.com/knifehome/

 

[Alan Eardley]

If you know what you are doing (perhaps having read and practiced Fairbairn and Sykes's stick self-defence techniques) a loaded stick will do as much as a stick with a blade in most tactical situations. Such a stick probably still qualifies as an ordinary walking stick or cane.

Just my opinion.

Alan

In terms of self defence, I'm sure I read somewhere that often (due, I imagine, to them not being always so easily drawn) that swordsticks in England were often wielded with the blade undrawn - the steel centre providing a sufficiently solid core to the stick to allow it to be used to parry away a blade in a defensive manouver.

 

[BellyTank]

I imagine a spiked, metal ferrule, the type used on a hiking staff,
could potentially "take an eye out", maybe handy on the end of a loaded stick-
heavy at one end, sharp at the other...

Hmmm...

B
T

 

[Vintage Betty]

If you know what you are doing (perhaps having read and practiced Fairbairn and Sykes's stick self-defence techniques) a loaded stick will do as much as a stick with a blade in most tactical situations. Such a stick probably still qualifies as an ordinary walking stick or cane.

Just my opinion.

Alan

Well said. I've practiced sword and stick fighting in various forms for 20 years, and can definately agree with that. And, having also practiced hand-to-hand combat plus knife fighting and martial arts, it's all relative.

More knowledge = better defense, regardless of what weapon you use.

Vintage Betty

 

[Lucky Strike]

There does remain a whole village industry throughout Asia making kukri knives, swords (including cane swords) and "trade musket"-type blunderbusses.

Those can actually be quite functional (well the knives anyway) as they usually use ground-down leaf springs and such for the metal.

Typical example; Indian khukri and sword cane. The khukri was interesting, with airplane aluminium and brass in the hilt, and the typical leaf-spring blade:

A few gun-canes:

And even a revolver one, .22 cal:

 

[Alan Eardley]

That's what I use. They come with a rubber tip for 'city use' that can be flipped off quickly and surreptitiously with the edge of a shoe sole, if one has to. From the reference to 'taking an eye out' I suspect you've read the F & S manual?

Alan

I imagine a spiked, metal ferrule, the type used on a hiking staff,
could potentially "take an eye out", maybe handy on the end of a loaded stick-
heavy at one end, sharp at the other...

Hmmm...

B
T

 

[Lucky Strike]

That's what I use. They come with a rubber tip for 'city use' that can be flipped off quickly and surreptitiously with the edge of a shoe sole, if one has to. From the reference to 'taking an eye out' I suspect you've read the F & S manual?

Alan

This one?