SUFFERING For Your STYLE

[SamMarlowPI]

this is a good subject because i always wondered what i would get if i walked down the street looking like Nick Charles or Ward Cleaver but I havent had time or clothes to do that...or money...i have a mixed style of retro/urban/my own style...like PF Flyers with Phat Farm Urban Jeans, a t-shirt and a flight jacket or big sweatshirt or hoodie and a skater beanie if its cold...lol..talk about a mix...as far as taste in music movies and knowledge of history etc., older folks are always shocked like when i tell them...they didnt think a 20 yr old would be into all that stuff...its funny...i like it...makes me different from the norm...thats what its about right? individuality? if im too far off here just kick me out of The Lounge

 

[reetpleat]

***blushing fiercely***

Root, you're a true gentleman. A lot of guys would've said something like "aw, she's old enough to be my mother!" But you're too classy for that, and I'm going to run into the other room now and put a hat on, just so I can take it off to you.

Everyone here's had some good advice, and I hope you'll pay them mind. I agree with Jess's suggestion that you might do better away from California. I lived out there myself back in the early '80s and felt terribly out of place -- I can only imagine what it's like now.

But wherever you are and wherever you end up, keep in mind that there really are women out there who are looking for just the type of guy you are. In a world full of overripe frat boys, self-obsessed emo whiners, and flea-bitten hippies, clean-cut fellows like you are all too few and far between.

Since this thread seems to have been revived, I rea a bit of the past posts and couldn't help but make a comment on an interesting tangent. As we all must surely know, while we all get along great in our love of vintage and classic style, there are people here who are very different.

I can't speak for root or anyone else here except myself. But the idea that getting outside of Califas would be different is certainly true, but better, maybe not.

If you are one who loves the golden era due to it's "values" whatever that means or even more significantly, it's conservative values, then perhaps a move to anotther clime might be in order. But if you love to dress in vinatge clothing and want to be around people who share your interest, or at least will respect or tolerate it, there is no better place that California.

San Francisco is quirky, and LA is all about fantasy becausse of the movies. Maybe NY is the same, but I don't think there is anywhere in the country where I would feel at home going out in vintage than California or NY.

While vintage is traditional, dressing in vintage is also kind of out of the ordinary, and frankly, much of the country seems to not do so well with that. OF course yoru average LA guy might not quite get it, but he or she will not be alarmed by it.

Interesting though.

Here in Seattle, quite frankly, I do not feel comfortable in vintage. Too casual. I miss SF.

 

[reetpleat]

I started this thread as a result of my experience wearing vintage suits ('30s and '40s) in Santiago, Chile. I worked there for nearly a decade and my job often required that I wear a suit. (In Santiago, the 1950s never died. All office boys wear ties, and just about every man with a white collar job wears a suit, five or six days a week. Women wear suits, too: most offices provide dress suits as uniforms.)

Anyway, I got into a lot of trouble for wearing vintage suits. Chile is a very homogenous, socially conservative country, where people look very closely at your clothing to "measure you up" socioeconomically and even politically. Any detail that seems out of the norm is criticized. A wider lapel, a higher trouser waist: all indicate that you are a nonconformist ... and in Chile, nonconformism (and eccentricity) are considered dangerous to the social fabric.

The signifiers there are amazing. The first time I went out there with a pocket handkerchief in my suit jacket, I received some very cold stares. A Chilean friend later informed me that during the Pinochet dictatorship, members of the military Junta (and their supporters, in imitation) would wear white pocket handkerchiefs with their civilian suits. The handkerchiefs were subtle, unspoken indicators of a person's political leanings. I, of course, had no idea of all this.

Finally, spectator shoes are looked down on in Chile because they (along with fedoras and double-breasted pinstripe suits) are worn as a kind of uniform by Argentine tango dancers. A good number of Chileans despise (and envy) Argentines by reputation, so they don't like to see spectator shoes on their pavements. I wore my shoes anyway -- on the street, the subway and buses -- and never did I see so many eyes burning holes into me.

.

That is so fascinating. Thanks for sharing that.

I find it so interesting because, let's face it. Withe the exception of maybe one or two on thi board, we are all kind of playing dress up. I imagine there are still a few social circles in the Us where the minute, finer points of sartorial choices really are noticed or make a difference.

I am so glad I did not live back in the day when people really did size you up over the details of your clothing. Your comments do kind of put an interesting perspective on it.

In wearing vintage style, we are all being kind of conservative, kind of avante garde, but ultimately, we are free from the careful scrutiny you describe.

I imagine that amongst the wealty in this country, there are minor details that signify wealth and class, but they are not quite the same as you describe. In fact, there is a certain style of clothing I consider as the provence of the wealthy. It is very crass and tacky to me, but very expensive. And I imagine wealthy people identify each other by it. I am talking about those designers that do that odd style that seems barely connected to anything else going on stylewise.

 

[reetpleat]

I started this thread as a result of my experience wearing vintage suits ('30s and '40s) in Santiago, Chile. I worked there for nearly a decade and my job often required that I wear a suit. (In Santiago, the 1950s never died. All office boys wear ties, and just about every man with a white collar job wears a suit, five or six days a week. Women wear suits, too: most offices provide dress suits as uniforms.)

Anyway, I got into a lot of trouble for wearing vintage suits. Chile is a very homogenous, socially conservative country, where people look very closely at your clothing to "measure you up" socioeconomically and even politically. Any detail that seems out of the norm is criticized. A wider lapel, a higher trouser waist: all indicate that you are a nonconformist ... and in Chile, nonconformism (and eccentricity) are considered dangerous to the social fabric.

The signifiers there are amazing. The first time I went out there with a pocket handkerchief in my suit jacket, I received some very cold stares. A Chilean friend later informed me that during the Pinochet dictatorship, members of the military Junta (and their supporters, in imitation) would wear white pocket handkerchiefs with their civilian suits. The handkerchiefs were subtle, unspoken indicators of a person's political leanings. I, of course, had no idea of all this.

Finally, spectator shoes are looked down on in Chile because they (along with fedoras and double-breasted pinstripe suits) are worn as a kind of uniform by Argentine tango dancers. A good number of Chileans despise (and envy) Argentines by reputation, so they don't like to see spectator shoes on their pavements. I wore my shoes anyway -- on the street, the subway and buses -- and never did I see so many eyes burning holes into me.

.

Another interesting thought.

Classify your experience in the "careful what you wish for" category. My first though would be, wow how wonderful to step into the past. But I have always know that I would hate the true vintage era. I would be a freak.

 

[Starius]

I am so glad I did not live back in the day when people really did size you up over the details of your clothing.

I could make several compelling arguments that that "day" has not seen it's sunset.

Perhaps not to the degree of the past, but ever one of us is most definitely judged in some way or another by what we wear in our daily lives.

Out in public, in my old college standard appearance, long hair, t-shirt jeans, etc... I was treated very differently by individuals than I was wearing a suit and carrying a large camera around. Don't they know that I am the same guy on the inside? That I haven't really changed? No, because our book covers are still the first indicators of how others treat us.

It has been my experience that I get just as many unfair advantages wearing a suit and dressing up than I get unfair disadvantages when I have little regard for my appearance.

 

[Mid-fogey]

Of course...

...this thread gets to the core of what this whole site is about.

I can't really say why I've spent so much of my life zigging while the rest of the world is zagging. Over the years I've periodically tried to "fit in." I gave it up about 20 years or so ago. You can't authentically relate to anyone else if you are not being yourself.

You know it when you are being youself by the way it feels. This I can't also can't explain. I don't know why I feel OK in a coat, tie, and fedora and other days I feel better in jeans and a polo shirt.

I do know that the more I have given in to myself, the happier I am and the more people seem to be drawn to me.

 

[Rooster]

Here in the Midwest you get the "business" for just wearing a suit. The locals have no clue whether it's vintage or not.
As an example , we went to diner at a high end restaurant last night. since it was in the 90's I wore my new linen suit and a pair of vintage brown and white spectators. Needless to say I got a lot of stares. Not because of my vintage inspired look, but just because I was wearing a suit. Most of the "better" dressed men there were wearing polo shirts and slacks. Many were wearing shorts and sandals and T shirts....
I was the only guy in the place wearing a tie, let alone a suit.lol

 

[SamMarlowPI]

Here in the Midwest you get the "business" for just wearing a suit. The locals have no clue whether it's vintage or not.
As an example , we went to diner at a high end restaurant last night. since it was in the 90's I wore my new linen suit and a pair of vintage brown and white spectators. Needless to say I got a lot of stares. Not because of my vintage inspired look, but just because I was wearing a suit. Most of the "better" dressed men there were wearing polo shirts and slacks. Many were wearing shorts and sandals and T shirts....
I was the only guy in the place wearing a tie, let alone a suit.lol

got more class than those other fellas...

 

[Miss 1929]

We suffer for Beauty

is written on the sole of one of my favorite pairs of shoes, by Lulu Guiness - but strangely enough, they are the most comfortable shoes!

OK, I do suffer from wearing authentic underpinnings sometimes, but it has never been a problem socially that I look vintage! And I've been doing it for about 30 years.

Most employers seem to be relieved to find someone who doesn't look like a slob. Clients and customers have always commented favorably, and co-workers make a point of checking out what I am wearing and telling me so.

Of course, I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, where a person can be themselves. On a recent visit to San Diego I was subjected to a lot of stares, but I think it had more to do with my non-tan, dark hair and stockings (not even seamed ones!) in the 100 degree heat than anything else.

Why should we even care what the unwashed masses think? We look better, we have nicer manners, and we can only hope a few people learn from our examples.

 

[carebear]

Why should we even care what the unwashed masses think? We look better, we have nicer manners, and we can only hope a few people learn from our examples.

Aaaaand, we're much more humble.

I have to agree with Starius that folks today are just as judgmental of people who dress "not like them" as they ever were. What has changed is there may be more subcultures around to do the judging.

It's easy to point the finger at the majority in the Golden Era who decided if you weren't in a suit you were an outsider (and also had gradiants within the "insider" status), society was more homogenous.

Now each little sub-group gets to feel equally smug about their own coolness and the hopeless lack of hipness of folks who don't dress/act like them.

 

[reetpleat]

I could make several compelling arguments that that "day" has not seen it's sunset.

Perhaps not to the degree of the past, but ever one of us is most definitely judged in some way or another by what we wear in our daily lives.

Out in public, in my old college standard appearance, long hair, t-shirt jeans, etc... I was treated very differently by individuals than I was wearing a suit and carrying a large camera around. Don't they know that I am the same guy on the inside? That I haven't really changed? No, because our book covers are still the first indicators of how others treat us.

It has been my experience that I get just as many unfair advantages wearing a suit and dressing up than I get unfair disadvantages when I have little regard for my appearance.

Well, that judgeing is kind of obvious and it makes sense. I think it is somewhat appropriate to think a guy in a suit means business and has a certain sense of respect for the occasion. A job interview in a suit is only right.

I am talking about how people might judge you based on the cut and quality of yoru suit and other sartorial details that are beyond your choice. Kid of an old boy network thing. I am sure that upper class people still know weather you are one of them or not by minor details, but the vast majority of americans are not so clas conscious in that way based on details of dress.

 

[carebear]

reet,

That's almost a loss in a way, isn't it? That the fine distinctions in quality in dress have become blurred and the guy who spends a lot on a suit in the end looks like the guy who spends a little?

It means the higher priced stuff has dropped in quality, not that the lower priced has gotten better.

 

[Rooster]

It means the higher priced stuff has dropped in quality, not that the lower priced has gotten better.

Nah, it means Joe Public doesn't have a clue what quality actually is. After all, Walmart would go out of business if if Joe Public knew what quality goods were.

 

[John in Covina]

IS there a FIT for everything?

A job is a job but a good job and a great job are different things, A job where you are making good money and don't have to spend your entire waking hours 7 days a week at can be the enabler to get the stuff you want.

Would it be a trade off if you had to wear a uniform? (I do.) I wear a hat to and from work every day and get either good or somewhat comedic responses but no put downs from my co-workers. Strangers usually don't say much, so who cares about people that have absolutely NO bearing on my life.

As to romantic ties. In the end it is your values and finding a woman / or man with similar values that makes for the best relationship and even the dreaded "get married to" other half.

Politics is compromise, marrige is compromise, and work is compromise to some degree. In life you don't always get to do what you want. and in marrige you should go for the common good. I won't comment on politics right now, it is Sunday morning you know.

I guess we could look at it as, you do what you can to pay the bills, you look ahead and see if you can improve your lot in life, and when you have freetime you try to have some fun and do what you want as long as it is not at the expense of others. Share what you know, try to find those that are interested in your interests, and go from there.

 

[Ecuador Jim]

But something Shoeshine Boy said stuck with me, and I repeat it every time I look in the mirror and wonder if I'm too far "out there:"
"Ain't you reached the point in your life yet where you don't give a s**t what other people think??"

.

BINGO!

I sometimes get "the look" from people who don't understand why someone would wear a hat other than a baseball cap worn backwards. (the eye rolls are priceless!)

Regardless of the current trends, when we decide what someone is about based only on their outward appearance, we do everyone a disservice, in my opinion. I have found that in most cases, a friendly look and "Hi there" are keys to neutralizing the offender.

I wore a Navy uniform for 10 years when being in uniform was not considered "cool". I was spat upon on my return from overseas, and called names that don't bear repeating. A sideways glance, or an "Indiana Jones" comment are small potatoes by comparison.

I only really care about what they guy staring back at me in the mirror thinks. (Man, if he ever actually says anything, I have other issues )

 

[reetpleat]

reet,

That's almost a loss in a way, isn't it? That the fine distinctions in quality in dress have become blurred and the guy who spends a lot on a suit in the end looks like the guy who spends a little?

It means the higher priced stuff has dropped in quality, not that the lower priced has gotten better.

Ah, good point. But if I look sharp in vintage or modern, I wnt people to say "he looks great." not "he is our class so I will get to know him or do business with him." or "Not our class, dear."

 

[Thunderbolt]

Suffering? Maybe...

Durring duty hours it's BDU's so it doesn't matter. But off duty I have a hard time relating to my fellow GI's. People find it a bit challenging to talk at first so I break the ice more than my fair share of the time. Then they find that I'm not so bad. I have a hard time imagining how people can go about thinking that the only stuff that exists is what they imediatly see before them. Flip flops with wrinkled and tattered cargo shorts (even in winter) with a T-shirt with a worn logo, seashell necklace and a ball cap with a chewed up bill. Talk about cookie cutters! Everyone listens to screaming and groaning heavy metal or gangster rap with gun cocking sound effects. I dont event dress that vintage. I don't fit in with my age bracket. I get a lot of statements that I dress like an old man. My panama hat gets me called Giligan, and sighs of discust and "Oh my God"'s like I was doing something obseen, but the ladies like them. My Adventure boots from Magnoli don't help, but how could you not like those? My Hawaiian shirts with WWII planes get laughs. (I think the're nice. I amin the Air Force.)At least my family and my girlfriend understand me.

 

[dakotanorth]

The price of vintage style?

In a word, YES.
I actually keep a suit I don't really want, simply because it is "toned-down" enough for interviews. It's a mid 50's navy blue gabardine suit. To most people it looks "different," maybe European, but it doesn't have that blatantly vintage styling to it.
I lived in Indiana up until May 06 and it was hell. Sometimes I think I wore vintage just to visually claim "I'm not one of them!!" At one of my jobs people always gave me the look... that "Aren't you too old to play dress-up?" look. The one advantage? Not much competition to find stuff that fits. Most store owners would hold stuff for me just b/c I was the only one interested.

In the romance department, it's tough to say. Odds are yes, but I haven't really asked. Personally I prefer mid-century clothing because I see it as "wearable art" so that in itself puts an interesting twist on things. I think; am I alone on that approach?? [huh]

Jp

 

[thunderw21]

I haven't 'suffered', though sometimes I get strange looks while other times I get complimented. Definitely more compliments than strange looks.

However, in the romance department I'm unsure. I'm pretty quiet and shy so any extra attention from the ladies, even about my clothing, is a good thing. I get a lot more smiles and "hi"s than if I was dressed like everyone else.

But, mere smiles and such don't make relationships, unfortunately. Dressing like we do shows the opposite sex that we care about our appearance and that can be very attractive to them. Then again, some might see it as a mental inbalance.
But, if someone thinks you are strange (in a bad way) because you like to look nice then they are not worth your time.
Billy

 

[LizzieMaine]

But, if someone thinks you are strange (in a bad way) because you like to look nice then they are not worth your time.

And there's the thing I find most screwy about modern culture: you could walk the streets of most any city in the most outlandish getup imaginable -- I dunno, a dress made out of garbage bags and duct tape -- and your hair combed with an eggbeater, and everyone would praise your individuality. But go around in a clean-cut suit and you get the snickers.

I guess it proves a point that's escaped a lot of young "rebels" today -- there is no conformity like the conformity of the non-conformists.