Stop for Nazi posts?

[Carnage]

I think it is important that people learn from history, and the Nazis were indeed a part of history, that we learn that much of what happened during the war (on behalf of both sides) were atrocities, and this should not be allowed to happen again.

Should we glorify the Nazis? No of course not, can you say that their uniforms were quite well tailored? Of course you can. It's not the same thing.

Not every German was a Nazi..

 

[Tango Yankee]

The Germans of WW2 were criminals in uniform, not honorable warriors defending a just cause.

Not quite. Most soldiers in any army during conflict, especially conscripted soldiers (or any other branch of the military) are simply people trying to survive and trying to keep their buddies alive.

Were most of the goals and actions of Hitler and the Third Riech evil through and through? Yes. Was the average German soldier? No.



Regards,
Tom

 

[Deleted member 12480]

I wasn't sure whether I should post in here, I don't frequent this particular area of FL, but i just wanted to add my (very small) two cents. I think I would have to agree about people merely being interested in history. History is, after all, written by the winners. I'm not suggesting that the Nazi's were right in what they did, not at all, but calling average soldiers 'criminals in uniform' is perhaps a bit strong.

I also would like to reason that they are probably not celebrating Nazi ways, but it is fair enough to explore all aspects of that certain period in time - particularly as it is just the uniforms!

You own/collect/learn about guns - it doesn't mean you have to kill people with them... [huh]

 

[BanjoMerlin]

The Germans of WW2 were criminals in uniform, not honorable warriors defending a just cause.

I have to say that is THE most offensive statement I have ever seen on The Fedora Lounge. Do you even know anyone who was a soldier in the German army during WWII?

The average German, soldier or civilian, had NO IDEA what was going on in the world at that time. They got all their news from the government and to even attempt to get the "whole" story could have cost them their lives. As far as they knew, the whole world was trying to kill them.

You don't blame the sheep if the shepard drives them off a cliff!

 

[StetsonHomburg]

I'm sure that there are OTHER places for the NAZIphiles to hang out. It's been ticking me off for quite a while. To admire, emulate or otherwise identify with them is abhorrent behaviour, IMHO. The Germans of WW2 were criminals in uniform, not honorable warriors defending a just cause.

Imagine, if you will, a person calling themselves "ALBERTFISH" and making repeated posts about serial killers. It's pretty much on that level.

Ah yes and some of those very rude comments like the poll I posted asking if the men of the forum had a favorite german camoflauge and you said: Dead nazi grey with bloody flecks, keep you thoughts to yourself please because you have been driving my crazy lately with some of those posts, I am asking nicely aswell to stay out of my Wehrmacht thread, I don't need you or your obsene and negative comments in my thread!

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Very curious...

I am a cast in concrete, true-blue libertarian and as anti-authoritarian as a person can get. I would have been one of the first collected from their home and sent to the gas chambers if I lived in National Socialist Germany.

But.... I don't sympathize with the politcal philosophy of National Socialism - I just collect uniforms and such and participate at times in reenactments.

Is there anything more ironic than a Luftwaffe Oberst in full uniform at a CAF event, deep in debate with a guy outfitted as Patton, over the subject of the American government's authority and jurisdictions? The uniform (in this context) does not define the man or the philosophy, just as we wouldn't judge a book by its cover!

(This post is not intended as a political statement but merely illuminates the paradox in this aforementioned subject and should not be construed as propagandizing or promotion of any particular political philosophy)

-Oberst Dixon von Cannon
Deutsches Luftwaffe

 

[StetsonHomburg]

I am a cast in concrete, true-blue libertarian and as anti-authoritarian as a person can get. I would have been one of the first collected from their home and sent to the gas chambers if I lived in National Socialist Germany.

But.... I don't sympathize with the politcal philosophy of National Socialism - I just collect uniforms and such and participate at times in reenactments.

Is there anything more ironic than a Luftwaffe Oberst in full uniform at a CAF event, deep in debate with a guy outfitted as Patton, over the subject of the American government's authority and jurisdictions? The uniform (in this context) does not define the man or the philosophy, just as we wouldn't judge a book by its cover!

(This post is not intended as a political statement but merely illuminates the paradox in this aforementioned subject and should not be construed as propagandizing or promotion of any particular political philosophy)

-Oberst Dixon von Cannon
Deutsches Luftwaffe

offtopic: Dixon, I haven't heard from you in ages!)

 

[Deleted member 12480]

I am a cast in concrete, true-blue libertarian and as anti-authoritarian as a person can get. I would have been one of the first collected from their home and sent to the gas chambers if I lived in National Socialist Germany.

But.... I don't sympathize with the politcal philosophy of National Socialism - I just collect uniforms and such and participate at times in reenactments.

Is there anything more ironic than a Luftwaffe Oberst in full uniform at a CAF event, deep in debate with a guy outfitted as Patton, over the subject of the American government's authority and jurisdictions? The uniform (in this context) does not define the man or the philosophy, just as we wouldn't judge a book by its cover!

(This post is not intended as a political statement but merely illuminates the paradox in this aforementioned subject and should not be construed as propagandizing or promotion of any particular political philosophy)

-Oberst Dixon von Cannon
Deutsches Luftwaffe

Fair enough! That's like playing 'Cowboys and Indians' without the one or the other!

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Right you are AnnPan! And here's my bone of contention!!!.... I don't like posts about Roman Legions either!! My people were slaughtered at Penny-Stratford by those "Italian Criminals" and it rips my guts to hear stuff about how nice Roman tunics were cut or what kind of horse hair was used in the crest of their Galea. I'm sick of it, I tell ya!! Let's all try to be a little more politically correct and sensitive to others pain shall we?!

And don't even get me started on that Cain and Abel thing either!!! :eusa_doh:

-Dixonius, Cannon of York

 

[Neophyte]

You know, while we're at it, let's discuss the Trail of Tears and the uniforms of the Americans...

 

[Spitfire]

I have been wondering a bit on why people collect uniforms from The Third Reich.
Why do you collect uniforms at all?
It’s hardly the same as someone who collects stamps or coins is it?

I also believe that you choose your collection from historic interests and/or a design value.
Nobody says. Hey – these guys were morons and loosers – so I’ll collect their uniforms.

I am not a collector – not in anyway – compared to some of the guys here.
But I do have some RAF stuff – a few helmets and goggles only and a lot of books on the subject. The Battle of Britain.

Would I have them, if I found that RAF pilots were wrong, war criminals or just plain stupid? No – I keep them because I find them pretty cool.
Because I believe they made a difference.

The same can be said about Third Reich collections.
You must think they were pretty cool.
And that’s what frightens me!!!
I do not think that every German soldier, sailor or airman were Nazis or criminals.
But I do believe that the glorification starts with the fascination.

 

[BanjoMerlin]

I have been wondering a bit on why people collect uniforms from The Third Reich.
Why do you collect uniforms at all?
It’s hardly the same as someone who collects stamps or coins is it?

I also believe that you choose your collection from historic interests and/or a design value.
Nobody says. Hey – these guys were morons and loosers – so I’ll collect their uniforms.

I am not a collector – not in anyway – compared to some of the guys here.
But I do have some RAF stuff – a few helmets and goggles only and a lot of books on the subject. The Battle of Britain.

Would I have them, if I found that RAF pilots were wrong, war criminals or just plain stupid? No – I keep them because I find them pretty cool.
Because I believe they made a difference.

The same can be said about Third Reich collections.
You must think they were pretty cool.
And that’s what frightens me!!!
I do not think that every German soldier, sailor or airman were Nazis or criminals.
But I do believe that the glorification starts with the fascination.

I believe you may have serious issues. Perhaps you should see a therapist.

 

[Italian-wiseguy]

I understand your point of view, Spitfire,

but you should take in consideration that people don't collect nazists; they collect uniforms.

It's not that they think "hey, these guys were cool!"

They only implicity affirm "their uniforms were cool": whole different stuff IMO.

I mean, maybe someone finds that german uniforms of WWII were well tailored and/or practical or whatever;
that's waaaay different from saying that National Socialist ideology was right!

I can't even see a real connection between the two things, i.e. political ideologies and well tailored clothes or practical and well made items.

Just how stupid could possibly be someone who's becoming a nazist only because german uniforms looked good?
I'd say that everybody who past Junior High school is far beyond this risk...

Ciao!

 

[Dixon Cannon]

I have been wondering a bit on why people collect uniforms from The Third Reich.
Why do you collect uniforms at all?
It’s hardly the same as someone who collects stamps or coins is it?

I also believe that you choose your collection from historic interests and/or a design value.
Nobody says. Hey – these guys were morons and loosers – so I’ll collect their uniforms.

I am not a collector – not in anyway – compared to some of the guys here.
But I do have some RAF stuff – a few helmets and goggles only and a lot of books on the subject. The Battle of Britain.

Would I have them, if I found that RAF pilots were wrong, war criminals or just plain stupid? No – I keep them because I find them pretty cool.
Because I believe they made a difference.

The same can be said about Third Reich collections.
You must think they were pretty cool.
And that’s what frightens me!!!
I do not think that every German soldier, sailor or airman were Nazis or criminals.
But I do believe that the glorification starts with the fascination.

Spitfire, I truly understand your consternation. I wonder myself about other people's choices - biker garb, tattoos, hip-hop, hijab, shorts and flip-flops. But in the final analyses people are free to make those personal choices. I do recognize the difference between a collector or reenactor and someone like George Lincoln Rockwell! Hell, he wasn't even authentically accurate in his uniform selection!

Here in the U.S. there are those who must feel the same way about Confederate reenactors. How dare they....those rascist, slave master, rebels!!?? But Civil War reenacting would be rather lopsided if there weren't enough people who favored the look and the impression of Confederate soldiers. For every Ying there is a Yang!

If there were folks who were bringing an Aryan Nation, White Supremacist, Neo-Nazi slant to their posts and advocating for National Socialism as a lifestyle, I'd be with you 100%. But nobody has done that, nor would they get away with it on the FL. Any posts I've seen were, for the most part, about the historical interest and/or the collector interest and fascination with the object and the subject, not the philosophy or the politics.

I don't think it's going away, and as time goes on, it seems likely to grow. Based on the connection most people have via the internet, it is inevitable.

-dixon cannon

 

[BanjoMerlin]

I think Spitfire is very sane, and that is his personal opinion, Chas needs to see a therapist and has serious issues... Althought I don't believe that fascination can lead to glorification.

Possibly, but if one doesn't want to glorify something one good way is to not call it by name. The simple act of calling it by name and capitalizing that name gives it respect it doesn't deserve.

 

[Neophyte]

Possibly, but if one doesn't want to glorify something one good way is to not call it by name. The simple act of calling it by name and capitalizing that name gives it respect it doesn't deserve.

:arated:

 

[Kopf-Jaeger]

I love this site and I lurk here more than I post. I figured I would chime in on this post as it hits kind of close to home. Having had relatives fight on opposite sides in two world wars I can assure you that not every German was a criminal or homicidal maniac. My father's family first and foremost have always been soldiers for as far back as we can research. They were proud of their country and served it, unfortunately during WW2 and for the Germans. I in no way am making apologies for the Nazis or any of their ilk. I collect WW2 German and American items. Growing up as a child, I had no less than 8 WW2 vets on my street all of them gave me one item or another of German Militaria that they had liberated. This started my interest in German items more than any family connection. Growing up knowing vets who served both sides they all said the same thing, every side has its criminals and heroes and an honorable soldier is an honorable soldier. Not every German was a Jew hater either. My Great-Uncle Werner served in the Kreigsmarine and after the war came to Canada with his wife. Till the day he died his closest friend was a WW2 Canadian vet of Jewish extraction. They were close friends and inseperable. Now, on my mother's side I am part Native American...should I hate anything in my collection related to he U.S. Army? Particularly the U.S. Cavalry? I love My country (America) but even our troops have done some bad things. Should a person from say Alabama be ashamed that his/her ancestor fought for the Confederacy because that flag is now wrongfully used by the KKK? I'd like to think a great many people on this board collect the German stuff for no other reason than a historical purpose. To me, it is merely the spoils of war.

 

[Neophyte]

. Now, on my mother's side I am part Native American...should I hate anything in my collection related to he U.S. Army? Particularly the U.S. Cavalry? I love My country (America) but even our troops have done some bad things. Should a person from say Alabama be ashamed that his/her ancestor fought for the Confederacy because that flag is now wrongfully used by the KKK?

That is exactly what I was trying to say!

Oh, and Welcome to the Lounge!

 

[Neophyte]

I have been wondering a bit on why people collect uniforms from The Third Reich.
Why do you collect uniforms at all?
It’s hardly the same as someone who collects stamps or coins is it?.

Actually, it's exactly the same.

 

[Zemke Fan]

Okay boys and girls...

Ya'll be respectful of each other. Any name callin' or spittin' and this thing will be as dead as an aramdillo on the Autobahn. Got it?