Stitch Awl Tutorial - Sweatband Installation

[CircuitRider]

That is so impressive, I am printing that off. and trying that. when I attemped to sew in a sweat, I used a needle and thread, it came out awful looking and was terrible!

do you pre-fasten the ends of the sweat before you sew it in? or do your leave the ends loos and let it "fit" it's way around that hat?

where's a good place to get sweatbands, I went to www.hatsupply.com and they have them for $7, but a minumun order of $35, which is more sweats than I'll ever need.

Thanks again fro the great info.

They sell very nice sweatbands, 2 inches wide! Their hydrolac stiffener is excellent also. Will be ordering some more sweatbands and odds and ends when I have a little more money.

 

[OT1899]

Sweatbands ...

JW Hats also sells sweatbands. For a little extra, they will cut the sweatband to your exact size and sew the ends together for you. I don't think they have a minimum order requirement. I have found them to be very helpful. If you haven't already seen it, there is a photo essay of their operations in the sticky section of TFL ("Links to Important Hat Threads --- Making a New Hat.")

 

[Jaybird]

Stitch awl sweatband

Great tip with the stitch awl,just finished making a pretty cool fur felt fedora,the stitch awl saved me. Great tutorial,many thanks

 

[Woodfluter]

Very helpful Brad!
(Your posts always are.)

Couple of thoughts.

I have a similar stitch awl for leather work. Some have noted that the chuck on some models doesn't securely hold a machine sewing needle. Others are having difficulties finding this item. Just wanted to point out that the awl just holds the needle (assuming you aren't using the bobbin inside the handle). So you could employ a small Vise-Grip or other locking pliers for that purpose.

Also, upholstery thread is good, as is that labeled "button and carpet" which is strong and tightly twisted. A color contrasting with the hat is easiest to see, as in the examples shown. Personally, I'd opt for a color closer to the hat, even though it should be well hidden.

If you want to evenly space your holes, all pounce wheels are too "fine" and marks probably won't remain long enough on felt. You might use a flexible plastic ruler or something like that. Better yet, carefully re-insert where the previous stitch holes were.

Thanks again! I'll be trying this one of these days.

- Bill

P.S.
Visited JW Hats a couple of years back on one of my visits to Utah. He sure has great old equipment! And very pleasant to speak with.

 

[DRB]

I am no expert, but I believe there are three approaches to installing a sweatband.
1. glue it.
2. use an awl, then cover the stitching with a decorative exterior ribbon.
3. machine or hand sew the cloth that is attached to the sweatband to the felt and then decoate with exterior ribbon hiding the stitching.

 

[Mario]

No glue ever comes close to one of my hats...

 

[olliefoxtail]

thanks for the leason. Learned alot.

 

[John Galt]

I very much enjoyed this thread. Thanks Brad!

A few comments:

I used color appropriate silk thread on the last sweat I sewed in by hand. It is thin but very strong.

I put the sweatbands around a hat stretcher with a sizing/inch scale set to the right size & measurement and then cut the sweat through both pieces of leather at the gap with a good set of sewing scissors. This gives me a sized sweat with a joint that is perfectly matched, even if my cut was a little crooked. This is an adaptation of wood worker's trick for trim work, I think.

When I have used a Leko band (I just received some JW sweats and find them much better) I have used a hat stretcher with a taper or tilted the ends of the sweat a bit before I made the cut, so that the top of the curve of the sweat's oval is slightly smaller than the bottom. This gives the same effect as cutting the sweat with a "V" shaped cutter or tool. Somewhere I seem to recall reading that Art Fawcett does this step with such a tool. Is that true Mr. F?

(I later take the resulting wang at the joint out when I see the sweat in straight.)

When I execute this step properly I get a self-conforming type of fit. JW's bands are cut in a rounded shape so this step may not be necessary with them. I haven't tried yet).

I then tape the cut ends of the sweat together exactly with a strong sticky cloth or paper tape as done in the really old hats. I need a good source for this tape - I've used duct tape (too sticky when stitching through) and tough packing tape (better, but its plasticky now) but am looking for the old style cloth packing tape or a good cloth tape. That having been done, I test the size on my head (or a band block) and then hand-stitch the sweat together.

The newly blocked hat body and now joined sweat are then married to each other. The sweat should fit well. I have not previously basted them, but this is a good idea.

I then stitch the sweat through the existing stitch holes in the sweat with a needle, thread & thimble. I start on the inside to hide my knot and then stitch up toward the crown from the outside and carefully watch the level of my stitching, to ensure it is straight and I can hide it under a hatband.

I used to use a strong mercerized cotton thread, but have switched to silk. I thought about beading thread, but didn't have anywhere to buy it at the time.

I will certainly try a stitch awl. I had not read this tutorial before, but was aware that some loungers used them to still

I just made some comments on Leko and JW's sweats in the conversion corral thread. JW has no minimum order to my knowledge, but Leko does have a minimum full order price. That is great, because I don't need a gross of sweats.

No pics, maybe I'll post some from the next project.

 

[TheDane]

I then stitch the sweat through the existing stitch holes in the sweat with a needle, thread & thimble.

Do you stitch it through the leather? Don't you stitch through the reeding-tape?

 

[John Galt]

Do you stitch it through the leather? Don't you stitch through the reeding-tape?

I actually stitch through the stitch holes that hold the reeding tape to the sweat. Otherwise, I don't really stitch through the reeding tape, except to the extent I stitch through it and the leather sweat. I use a thread that matches both the sweat color and the thread that was originally used. I am also careful not to make my stitches too long, so they remain hidden.

 

[TheDane]

Then the processing of tapeing/reeding is more or less waisted. The sweatband must be sewn to the felt through the reeding-tape, so the leather is "hinged" to the felt

 

[Joshbru3]

Then the processing of tapeing/reeding is more or less waisted. The sweatband must be sewn to the felt through the reeding-tape, so the leather is "hinged" to the felt

That's not necessarily true. When sewing a sweatband, there are several different way of doing it. I have bought vintage and modern European hats where the sweatband was simply sewn into the hat on the front of the sweatband right between the reed and the sweatband stitching. The most common way of attaching a sweatband is sewing the reed tape flat against the inside of the hat, but its not the only way. I have also owned vintage hats where the sweatband was buttoned into the hat. (Carter type sweatbands) Reed tape serves several purposes. It lets the hatter sew the sweatband to the reed and also serves as a slight barrier against sweat soaking through the hat. Each way of attaching a sweatband in the various methods has its advantages and disadvantages.

 

[John Galt]

I deleted the repeat post. I don't quite follow, Dane. The reed is still there (I omitted that step - oops), and provides support for the shape of the oval. The sweat is mounted firmly at the joint with the brim, as it should be. If I sew only through the reeding tape, the sweat would flex, sure, but it seems it would also gap between the body & the sweat, and be a less secure attachment. At any rate, the sweats both flex and are secure. Am I just missing something?

 

[John Galt]

I have bought vintage and modern European hats where the sweatband was simply sewn into the hat on the front of the sweatband right between the reed and the sweatband stitching.

I believe that this succinctly describes what I have been doing. I use the existing holes & run a stitch every 1/4 inch or so, hiding them in the gap with the stitching that is already there.

 

[TheDane]

Josh: I've seen the buttoned in type in a picture, and I once owned an old hat of unknown origin with a reeded sweat sewn in between the leather and the reed - but I think they are very rare. You are right, I squeezed it a bit with my "must". In my opinion it should be stitched through the tape to get the full worth of the reeding

John: If you sew the sweat through the tape and get a gap between the sweat and the felt, you're doing something wrong. The reed is not so much there to support the oval, but to force the sewing outward against the crown at the bandline (almost under the brim).

The monofilament should be cut, so it's longer than the leather. When you have sewn the two ends of leather together, you force the ends of the filament into a ferrule and secure it under the tape. That way you end up with a leather/reed combination where the side with the reed is longer than the rest. The result is, that the whole sweat balloons - and the reed will press the sweat to fit against the felt when sewn in through the tape.

 

[John Galt]

John: If you sew the sweat through the tape and get a gap between the sweat and the felt, you're doing something wrong. The reed is not so much there to support the oval, but to force the sewing outward against the crown at the bandline (almost under the brim).

The monofilament should be cut, so it's longer than the leather. When you have sewn the two ends of leather together, you force the ends of the filament into a ferrule and secure it under the tape. That way you end up with a leather/reed combination where the side with the reed is longer than the rest. The result is, that the whole sweat balloons - and the reed will press the sweat to fit against the felt when sewn in through the tape.

To be clear, I haven't had a "gap" problem because I've never actually done it that way. I was perceiving a hypothetical problem I might have.

I've been doing the reed & ferrule as you have described. I will sew the next sweat in by the reed tape as you suggest and compare the results.

Thanks so much for your insight & guidance. That kind of openness is why I love this forum so much.

 

[TheDane]

John: Thanks for the kind words. You really should try the other method next time. I'm sure it won't result in problems

The (sometimes gold-impressed) groove in top of most sweats is originally not just a decoration. In earlier days the groove was rolled/pressed very hard into the leather, causing the material to expand - thereby making the upper edge a little bit longer than the rest.

The result was, that the leather ballooned both at the top and bottom, ensuring an even better "cushion-fit". Sometimes you can find traces of rolling of the reeding-edge too. I haven't seen any written references to that phenomenon, but I guess it was done before sewing to make the leather balloon more in the bottom, than the lengthening of the monofilament would ensure(?)

Most embossing/impressing of modern sweats is done to decorate the leather, while the heightening of comfort has been down-prioritized. Most of today's edge-rolling is done way too superficial to have any impact on the curvature - but it looks nice

 

[sulla]

I have a vintage hat that I love with a very dry and cracked sweat band. I would like to replace it.

I am confident I can remove the hat band and sew in a new leather sweat band. I might even be able to make one (I work with leather a lot.) However, having never made one nor sewn one in I am looking for advice, tutorials, trusty YouTube videos, even sources for for already made, good quality, leather sweat bands.

I have found a few threads related to sweat bands in the older posts here from the past. Bud-n-texas was mentioned but he hasn't been active in The Lounge for some time.

Anyone have a good source for leather sweatbands or types of leather suggested? I have some nice soft 3-4 oz. chrome tanned leather I use for insoles in my shoes that I think is either cow or pig. It's not super stiff, but it is soft and comfy. I also have veg tanned leather in all kinds of thicknesses.

 

[scottyrocks]

I have heard veg tanned leather praised highly for sweatbands.

 

[Bamaboots]

Sweatband source:https://www.etsy.com/shop/finevintagefedoras

He's a member here, @bond and I've used him to replace my sweats and sourced them from him when I started replacing my own. Roan leather and they are quality at a reasonable price.


This is the method I use though some go the straight needle and thread route.
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/stitch-awl-tutorial-sweatband-installation.38010/