Stetson felt quality: "Royal Deluxe" and "3x Beaver"

[mark balen]

For many years Stetson produced dress fur felt hats designated as "Royal Deluxe" and "3x". I'd like to hear what others may know regarding the quality of the felt of each, and how the quality of the felt in these two compared to the other. I'm particularly interested in vintage hats. Thanks!

 

[deadlyhandsome]

For many years Stetson produced dress fur felt hats designated as "Royal Deluxe" and "3x". I'd like to hear what others may know regarding the quality of the felt of each, and how the quality of the felt in these two compared to the other. I'm particularly interested in vintage hats. Thanks!

There are a lot of variables. Many hats offered in one grade of felt weren’t available in the other so a direct comparison is tough. We also rarely know the exact date of manufacture for vintage hats so you’ll never know if you’re actually comparing grades of felt or felt quality at the time the hats were made. Some hats that we know were made at the same time in both felt qualities are out there, but how do we know the examples we have are contemporaries? When we date vintage hats the closest we can often get is a decade.

3X was more expensive than RD, and more common on western felt rather than dress hats. There are many exceptions. I only have a small sample size, so maybe others who have more firsthand experience can give you better answers.

 

[jlee562]

There are a variety of existing threads on the topic of felt quality. In short, there is no neat-and-clean way to broadly compare felt grades across time.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/stetson-quality-experiment-think-tank.32495/

 

[Just Daniel]

Mark,

Welcome to the Lounge!

The information you seek is here under the various Stetson threads. Given that everything can be scattered around and rather inconvenient to find, I can sum up your answer rather quickly:

1) Stetson 3X is a quality designation that goes back to the early 1900s, (maybe a bit earlier, but I will have to refresh my memory). At different times that cannot be well defined 3X Beaver felt contained differing amounts of beaver fur; more before, less now. During much of this time a 3X hat maintained a price point at $15 - through the early 60s.

2) The Royal Deluxe quality designation appeared in the early to mid ‘40s. Royal Stetsons appeared in the mid to late 30s. Until about the 60s Royal Stetsons cost $10 and Royal Deluxe Stetsons cost $12.95 (or was it $12.50?). They may or may not have contained beaver fur, but they are most likely hare.

During these times other hat brands routinely sold for $5 and less, so a $10, $12, or $15 hat was pretty nice.

The actual difference in quality depends mostly on the decade of the hats’ manufacture. A $15 3X hat from the 20s or thirties is nicer than a $15 3X hat from the ‘50s, due to inflation and manufacturing differences.

Generally speaking, if you have two of the same types of cowboy hat in front of you from the same decade, one a 3X and one a Royal Deluxe, the 3X will be a bit smother, thinner, and the crown easier to mold. I find this difference more pronounced in hats from the 50s, but I do notice it in 40s hats as well.

Daniel

PS To better search through the forum for more info, use google site search. Put this text in your search box: site:thefedoralounge.com

That makes searches a bit easier.

Good luck!

 

[mark balen]

In just two hours, three informative responses. Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge- very helpful.

 

[glider]

The problem with X ratings is that there is no standard other than, more X's mean the hat cost more money and is of higher quality. A 10X from one manufacture may be equal to a 5X from another, there isn't an industry standard. Even hat guys on this forum may disagree on what makes a very nice felt and how it is finished can make a big difference also. Stetson western hats have been marked 4X Beaver, fairly common on older hats, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's 100% Beaver. As a matter of fact I'm not sure what 4X Beaver does mean.

 

[T Jones]

I have an RS, an RD, and 3X in vintage. I like all three of those offerings. They're all good quality felts....and there's a ton of other felt designations that were more expensive, like Imperial and Sovereign. Some heavier felts, some lighter weight felts. Many had different designations for finishes too. In vintage, none of that meant that one was better quality over the other. They were various offerings at varying prices, but all, in vintage, were good quality. I'm kind of partial to the lighter weight felts similar to the RS when it comes to fedoras. For Westerns, I like something a little heavier. It's a matter of preference. If you're a collector, then I imagine you'd want the whole variety.

 

[glider]

I think Stetsons western hats are expected to endure more weather and just rougher treatment overall so are heavier felt and stiffer. All of mine are.

 

[Bamaboots]

$2.50 and felt density and malleability are the two biggest differences in the two I have from the same era. Both very soft felts and the RD especially so in that it’s almost flimsy next to the 3X. Both crowns are easily opened up but the RD needs steam and handwork to get it to hold whereas the 3X has that density and firmness that allows it to hold a crease w/o steam. Not much of a difference in finish that I can find. The 3X feels a bit more substantial and outweighs the RD 129 grams to 120. Dimensions are the same.

 

[mark balen]

Thanks for the observations and the side to side comparison. Same experience here on the finish itself being similar and the 3x having the feel of being more dense.

 

[Just Daniel]

Excellent, definitive answer.

I’ll put emphasis on one point: while that $2.50 difference looks tiny to us, it represents a full 20% markup at a time when $5.00 could still buy you a hat; the rare, most expensive hats at the time were priced around $50 and later $100.

$2.50 was not a huge difference, but it represented a decent jump and we certainly see a lot fewer $15 than $12.50 and $10 hats from the mid-50s and back.

In my totally unscientific opinion, I think the 3X, $15 hat is more than 25% better (but not 50% better than) than the Royals and Royal Deluxe hats of similar decades.

Thanks Bama for that brilliant head to head comparison!

Daniel

$2.50 and felt density and malleability are the two biggest differences in the two I have from the same era. Both very soft felts and the RD especially so in that it’s almost flimsy next to the 3X. Both crowns are easily opened up but the RD needs steam and handwork to get it to hold whereas the 3X has that density and firmness that allows it to hold a crease w/o steam. Not much of a difference in finish that I can find. The 3X feels a bit more substantial and outweighs the RD 129 grams to 120. Dimensions are the same.
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[Short Balding Guy]

3X and then there is 3X Beaver! Yes even more obfuscation and subtle differences to the already muddled Stetson quality nomenclature. If you follow the link below I have a Side By Side Comparison of 2 3X Beavers of slightly different ages. 3 XBeaver "oldster" hats are very different than 3X. The medium weight felts have that sought after "clay-like" ability to take a crease.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/side-by-side-hat-comparisons.65983/page-48#post-2671330

I hope this assists in the general discussion of the Royal Deluxe vs. Royal De Luxe.