Stetson block profile numbers

[tonyb]

Tom may have to help me here.
But if I remember right... at the Hatco tour last year we were told that as a general rule Stetson would destroy their old blocks.
Some were keep as evidenced by the blocks that we were able to take with us.

They sent you guys home with blocks? Wow, such a wonderful souvenir, and such a gracious gesture. Am I correct in assuming that these blocks are of fairly recent manufacture?

 

[RBH]

They sent you guys home with blocks? Wow, such a wonderful souvenir, and such a gracious gesture. Am I correct in assuming that these blocks are of fairly recent manufacture?

Here is one photo I found.

Bill and Josh.

 

[Joshbru3]

Vic, THANKS SO MUCH for posting these tags. The hats they are associated with are spectacular!

 

[Joshbru3]

Joshbru, where did you find all those nice pre1940 hats? They seem to be in nice shape.

Steven

Well, I collect pre-1940's hats, so the only post-1940's hats that I own I wear for daily use. I have gotten them from ebay, etsy, antique stores, and lounger trades/purchases.

 

[Joshbru3]

Block 762/ 5 1/2" depth

WOW! Just incredible, Alan! I love that hat. Thanks so much for posting the tag.

 

[Joshbru3]

Interesting and worthwhile effort here, guys.

I believe that Stetson made their blocks in-house, and I presume the block styles (and the style numbers) were proprietary. So I'm left to wonder just what the chances are of ever locating more than a very few (if even that many) of those old blocks, seeing how so much of Stetson's archives and such seems to have disappeared over the decades and all the moves and changes in ownership.

But we can infer a very close approximation what those blocks looked like through something like a reverse-engineering approach. In most cases, an old hat in very good or better condition that still sports its original components (sweatband, liner, ribbon) was probably never cleaned and blocked post-factory, so its open-crown shape would be the shape of the block on which it was made. The very existence of those old paper labels is even further reason to think this. Those things usually come off in the cleaning process, and I find it doubtful that the typical corner hatter's shop would have bothered to glue them back in place, although I am aware that some shops offered a quickie while-u-wait service whereby a hat would be fitted to a block and brushed and perhaps given a cursory crown ironing to spruce it up a bit. Still, I've long maintained that in the large majority of cases pristine vintage hats survive in that condition because they didn't see much use. They got worn on special occasions and at some point they got put away and essentially forgotten. Fueling this forgotten-hat phenomenon was the simple truth that hats had started gradually falling out of fashion early in the 20th century, if what I've read from historically reliable sources is to be trusted.

There's a chance (a slight one, perhaps) that this thread will help identify genuine vintage Stetson factory blocks, should such pop up in our many prowlings about the dusty antique shops and the like. The numbers would be the giveaway, of course. I have well more than few blocks myself, and I've handled a good many more than that, and the block numbers listed in this thread so far are unfamiliar to me.

Does anyone here know if Stetson at one time offered factory refurbishing? Or if they had relationships with hatter's shops to whom they entrusted their proprietary blocks? I have my doubts, especially as to that second proposition, but you gotta wonder why the information on those labels was considered important enough to include in the first place. Was it more for the benefit of the retailers than the end consumers?

And then there are paper labels (from many manufacturers) that say something to the effect of "to reproduce mention this number," which is followed by a nine or ten digit (and letter, often) string of characters. It's a code, to state the obvious.

From everything that I have read, I believe that Stetson did make their blocks in house. I have also read that it was common practice in the 20's & 30's for Stetson to give their old blocks to their employees to use as firewood during the winter months. I'm sure thousands of Stetson blocks met their demise in the fiery cavities of fireplaces. I have to wonder though if some survived. I would imagine there must be some out there, but I highly doubt that Stetson ever put their name on any of the early blocks. If they were produced in house and were only meant to be used in house, its doubtful that if any blocks escaped unburned that we would ever know they are Stetson blocks without the block numbers. I've see numerous blocks with the hatters warehouse or supply company stamp, but never one with a stetson logo. Because they were not meant for re-sale, why would they stamp them? I have seen 1 flange stamped "Stratoliner." I have to believe this was from the 40's and this is the only one I have ever seen stamped with a Stetson model name.

These re-order tags are such a wealth of information and unfortunately after going through all 30+ pages of the pre-1940's hat thread, many people who posted their hats did not included the tag. Its my hope that one of us will stumble upon a Stetson log book or key that says what these blocks are. For now, we have the numbers, and heights. Also from looking at pictures of open crowned hats, IF they were not re-blocked, we can get a good idea of similarity in runs of hats. For example. I have seen several early playboys with a 123 block tag. They have the same crown shape and height, so I would assume this was THE Playboy block for the early ones. It would be wonderful to find one!

 

[Joshbru3]

>> I believe that Stetson made their blocks in-house, and I presume the block styles (and the style numbers) were proprietary.

I have a 322, 5 1/4, 7 1/4 block.

>>Rancheros(San Fran) Block 322 Depth 5 1/2?

Thanks, Steve! The several 322 block tags that I have seen are 5 1/2. Do you have a picture of your 322 block?

 

[Joshbru3]

They sent you guys home with blocks? Wow, such a wonderful souvenir, and such a gracious gesture. Am I correct in assuming that these blocks are of fairly recent manufacture?

They are pretty recent, but they were blocks that Stetson/Resistol didn't use any more.

 

[alanfgag]

For example. I have seen several early playboys with a 123 block tag. They have the same crown shape and height, so I would assume this was THE Playboy block for the early ones. It would be wonderful to find one!

Later than yours, but still 123 into the late 1930s:

 

[Joshbru3]

Here is one photo I found.

Bill and Josh.

That's a great picture. One of my favorites! Thanks for posting it, Rusty!

 

[Joshbru3]

Later than yours, but still 123 into the late 1930s:

Awesome! This just furthers my theory that even though Stetson had different hat models that had crowns that were 5 1/2, 5 5/8, 5 3/4, etc, that there was a reason for using different block numbers for the different series even if both series of hats had 5 1/2 inch open crowns for example. Each block is different in the sloping of the shoulders, top flatness, etc. Thanks for posting this, Alan!

 

[mayserwegener]

Thanks, Steve! The several 322 block tags that I have seen are 5 1/2. Do you have a picture of your 322 block?

Here you go. It looks like the maker mark is S.M. MUND. I found this at an antique mall just south of Kansas City.

I did some Googling and found the company was named S.M. Mund Hatter's Supplies (Samuel M. Mund Saint Joseph, MO). Also found he was a hatter from Austria (now Poland).

 

[Joshbru3]

UPDATED LIST (Effective 02-20-2011, 11:37am Central time)

(Block Used: 17, Labeled Height: 5 7/8)
(Block Used: 123, Labeled Height: 5 1/2)
(Block Used: 161, Labeled Height: 5 1/2)
(Block Used: 217, Labeled Height: 5 3/4)
(Block used: 322, Labeled Height: 5 1/2)
(Block used: 424, Labeled Height: 4 3/4)
(Block used: 424, Labeled Height: 4 3/8)
(Block Used: 427, Labeled Height: 5 5/8)
(Block Used: 494, Labeled Height: 6)
(Block used: 522, Labeled Height: 5)
(Block used: 522 1/2, Labeled Height: 5 1/8)
(Block Used: 578, Labeled Height: 5 5/8)
(Block Used: 592, Labeled Height: 5)
(Block Used: 729, Labeled Height: 5 5/8)
(Block Used: 736, Labeled Height: 5 3/4)
(Block used: 762, Labeled Height: 5 1/2)
(Block Used: 788, Labeled Height: 5 5/8)

 

[Joshbru3]

Wonderful Steve, thanks for posting this! Even though the block is clearly marked that its not Stetson, the profile of this block is very similar to the hat that Vic posted. Very Straight sided, flat topped block. I have to wonder if the Stetson block numbers were actually proprietary or if the numbers were an established numbering system based on shape and profile by hatters supply companies.

 

[mayserwegener]

Yes it does has a similar profile to the hat in Vic's post. My search turned up some other blocks made by S.M. Mund.

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-antique-wood-hat-forms-and-stretchers

 

[Joshbru3]

Ebay pics-NOT MINE

Even though we have seen this block number before, this is the second derby to have it. Seems to be a reoccurring pattern.

(Block used: 522 1/2, Labeled Height: 5 1/8)

 

[hatophile]

Good research, guys!

 

[alanfgag]

1920s Nutria Western/ Block 406/ 7" depth

 

[Joshbru3]

Thanks so much for posting this, Alan!!!!

 

[Joshbru3]

UPDATED LIST (Effective 03-05-2012, 12:10pm Central time)

(Block Used: 17, Labeled Height: 5 7/8)
(Block Used: 123, Labeled Height: 5 1/2)
(Block Used: 161, Labeled Height: 5 1/2)
(Block Used: 217, Labeled Height: 5 3/4)
(Block used: 322, Labeled Height: 5 1/2)
(Block Used: 406, Labeled Height: 7)
(Block used: 424, Labeled Height: 4 3/4)
(Block used: 424, Labeled Height: 4 5/8)
(Block Used: 427, Labeled Height: 5 5/8)
(Block Used: 494, Labeled Height: 6)
(Block used: 522, Labeled Height: 5)
(Block used: 522 1/2, Labeled Height: 5 1/8)
(Block Used: 578, Labeled Height: 5 5/8)
(Block Used: 592, Labeled Height: 5)
(Block Used: 729, Labeled Height: 5 5/8)
(Block Used: 736, Labeled Height: 5 3/4)
(Block used: 762, Labeled Height: 5 1/2)
(Block Used: 788, Labeled Height: 5 5/8)