Stetson 4X - HatCo customer service's reply

[HATCO]

I don't think it has to be that way. It's all in HatCo's control - all it takes is someone with the gumption to do it.

Note that Akubra doesn't use the X system, and they seem to do just fine.

My suggestion here is to break the mold. Start over. Be a leader (the Stetson name certainly has the credentials to lead here).

Stetson & Resistol could take the initiative and start marking their hats by fur % weight.

100% Rabbit "The Standard"
20% Beaver / 80% Rabbit "The Premier"
100% Beaver "The Pinnacle"

I suspect the hat industry is just in a funk. They THINK they have to use the X system like its some law, but they don't. If anything - as you say, it HURTS you to use the X system since your competitor can call a hat 1000X, yet it's the same quality as your 4X.

JT you are right that it matters in the western industry.

Jeff I was discussing your previous post with a couple of people and we all came to the same independent conclusion. No retailers would buy our hats if we did away with the X system. I should say that even though a competitor can use a higher X, the quality of their inferior felt can be determined by feel.

The X system isn't perfect but it has been successful for us.
Stetson invented it and we haven't strayed from it. We have been and will continue to honor the mixtures that determine the X quality of a fur felt hat.

It would be next to impossible to what you suggest as far as


100% Rabbit "The Standard"
20% Beaver / 80% Rabbit "The Premier"
100% Beaver "The Pinnacle"


While some hats may be 100% rabbit, you have to then ask what grade is the rabbit fur? What is the breed of rabbit? Where is the rabbit from? etc.... Also is a wild hare and a rabbit the same? The quality of fur is most certainly different.....

So while a 4X and a 6X maybe 100% rabbit they are not the same mixtures of the above mentioned.

Hence the X designation to differentiate a higher quality felt .

I hope I was able to answer your question.

 

[J.T.Marcus]

HATCO, Beautiful answer. We tend to forget that you guys did indeed invent tha X system, and that it was others who abused it, sometimes putting you in a bind. In another thread, I asked a fellow lounger if his nutria had a different feel from rabbit or beaver. His reply was that he couldn't feel the difference. I suspect that, if we conducted a blindfold test, and were asked to guess the make-up of the felt in various hats, most of us would be stumped.

A sincere thank you for your product, and your concern for quality control and for our issues. JTM

 

[jeff]

I suspect that, if we conducted a blindfold test, and were asked to guess the make-up of the felt in various hats, most of us would be stumped.

Good point, JT. Although I mostly care about the beaver/rabbit ratio in terms of longetivity of the hat -- how does it handle the rain & weather without losing shape, tapering, etc.

Thanks again HatCo for your response. I do appreciate it even if I disagree . Not many companies interact with their customers on forums - so it's always a treat and an honor when they do.

Best,

jeff

 

[HATCO]

Good point, JT. Although I mostly care about the beaver/rabbit ratio in terms of longetivity of the hat -- how does it handle the rain & weather without losing shape, tapering, etc.

Thanks again HatCo for your response. I do appreciate it even if I disagree . Not many companies interact with their customers on forums - so it's always a treat and an honor when they do.

Best,

jeff

If you're ever in Dallas I invite to tour our factory and then our showroom. You can feel the qualities from 4X all the way up to pure beaver.

I just can't tell you the %'s

 

[Not-Bogart13]

Frankly, so would I! I got my Pinnacle at the Outlet Store, for $48. Its only flaw? The name of the shop, stamped on the sweatband in gold, is not quite legible. Other than that, it's perfect. I'm not complaining.

Well, with that kind of deal in front of me, it would suddenly (if temporarily) become my favorite hat!

 

[thefedorastore]

Abolish the Xs

If my past wives could hear this! Abolish the Xs. As a retailer, I would much rather disclose the felt content to the consumers purchasing the hats. It would make for smarter and happier consumers, which is highly desirable by this retailer. Beaver Brand only has beaver in their 20X, and it's 20% beaver. The majority of hat buyers could care less between hare and rabbit, but I would assume they could determine better quality with beaver content. So, if it's in the hat, market the fact. There are western hat makers putting out cheap hats with 10,000 Xs, so why disguise what the hat is? Tell it like it is and it should contribute to sales unless the product is no good. The majority of hats sold are 100% wool, and it says it on the label of most hats. Doesn't keep anyone from buying them. I like what I read about what Akubra is doing. As a retailer, when a hat 'newbie' does ask about the significance of the Xs, I have to ask which brand. Depending on the brand, I may or may not be able to give an accurate answer. That's no fun.

Finally, I am not very close in the manufacturing end, but I would suspect that the big production houses can do several runs of a style throughout the year, and depending on the availability of the felt hoods, the contents on a hat with the same name/style/product number could vary throughout the year, and this labeling would have to change. And then what about the catalogs? With the Xs, no worries about using different felt hoods if one supplier is out. Thus, content can change and the hat can have the same Xs?

Gosh, sorry..... rambling alone at the office tonight.

Duane

 

[Marc Chevalier]

But Duane, did those Xs have more meaning before the 1960s? Specifically, is a 1930s or '40s 3X Stetson a particularly good hat?

.

 

[thefedorastore]

But Duane, did those Xs have more meaning before the 1960s? Specifically, is a 1930s or '40s 3X Stetson a particularly good hat?

.

My point is that there was a time when the Xs meant something, and that's great when shopping for very old hats. However today these designations are meaningless, and being a retailer, I think the labeling on hats should be more straightforward. Hatco mentioned in this thread that if they disposed of the Xs, retailers wouldn't buy the hats. I don't think this is the case, but I am speculating as well. When doing renovation work on the old Stetson hats, I found them all to be well made and fun to work with.

 

[J.T.Marcus]

I had a PM request for pictures of my stetson Pinnacle. Here goes.

I just noticed, not only have I not removed the feather (which my wife likes), but that cheap pin is still in place.

The city and state where the Hat Guys are located are not readable. This is the only flaw I could find!

 

[besdor]

J T , if thats the problem with your hat then you got a great deal. Those hats should never end up at the outlet store for that price as it is well less than the normal wholesale price. I myself bought four of them at the outlet store earlier this year. There was realy nothing wrong with them . I put them in my store and sold them all in five days.



Steven

 

[jeff]

If you're ever in Dallas I invite to tour our factory and then our showroom. You can feel the qualities from 4X all the way up to pure beaver.

I just can't tell you the %'s

I may just take you up on that some time. We're 7 hours north of you, in Southeastern Kansas.

Best,

jeff