Star Trek

[Trenchfriend]

I was always told that in the original Captain Kirk Star Trek series, the Klingons were thinly veiled stand-ins for the Cold War Russians; right down to their dressing like Cossacks, speaking gutteraly, and acting like Krushchev.

Indeed, the early, Cossacks-related dressing of the Klingons is a thing, I didn't notice, before!

 

[Tiki Tom]

As the Maquis renegade Eddington told Sisko to his face, "You're even worse than the Borg -- at least they *tell* you you're going to be assimilated! The Federation assimilates you and you don't even know it!"

Great quote, for better or worse. Who wouldn’t want to be part of the Federation? I mean, inexpensive clothing, fast food, pop culture, and snazzy warp drive spaceships. ...And some people don’t see the relevance of Star Trek!

 

[Tiki Tom]

Holy smokes. Have you heard the BIG NEWS?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/04/arts/star-trek-patrick-stewart-picard.html

 

[Zombie_61]

Holy smokes. Have you heard the BIG NEWS?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/04/arts/star-trek-patrick-stewart-picard.html

Yay. Patrick Stewart is one of my favorite actors, but I'm still not paying for CBS All Abscess.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Agree 100%.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I don't do streaming services, but I'm intrigued by this -- if it explores what the Alpha Quadrant looks like twenty years after the end of the Dominion War, and how Picard fits into that order of things, I might find a way to watch. But only if Klingons aren't bald, purple, and shiny.

 

[Trenchfriend]

The last TNG-scene with "Judge Q" in "All good things" just screams for succeeding storytelling!

 

[Zombie_61]

I don't do streaming services, but I'm intrigued by this -- if it explores what the Alpha Quadrant looks like twenty years after the end of the Dominion War, and how Picard fits into that order of things, I might find a way to watch. But only if Klingons aren't bald, purple, and shiny.

One brief online article I read stated this new show will be produced by at least some of the people responsible for Star Trek: Discovery. And since it will also be hosted on CBS All Abscess, I'm guessing all of the legal issues that forced them to re-invent the Trek universe for Discovery are still in place and that Star Trek: Picard (or whatever they'll call it) will be equally as unfamiliar to Trek fans.

 

[Doctor Strange]

This Picard series strikes me as a pretty obvious desperation move to keep the franchise ongoing.

The Abramsverse movies are showing diminishing returns and having backstage difficulties (did anybody see the recent news that the next one - which was somehow supposed to include Chris Hemsworth's George Kirk, probably through more dumb alternate timeline/time travel shenanigans - was derailed over contract disputes with both Hemsworth AND Chris Pine?) And there's an allegedly good new Trek series running on CBS All Access... that even hardcore, lifelong mega-fans like myself and Alex aren't watching.

So let's get Patrick Stewart, since the nostalgia demographics have moved on from aging boomers of the TOS era to folks who view TNG as their "main" Trek series anyway. (Don't get me wrong, I dearly love TNG, but I was already in my mid-30s when it aired... and it didn't have the same life-changing impact on me as the show I watched from 11 to 14 did!)

 

[Zombie_61]

^ As I see it, the problem is that the people who are currently responsible for Star Trek don't have the slightest idea about what made it so popular in the first place. And with all the legal wrangling over who owns which part of the franchise, they're stuck with the unenviable task of having to reinvent most of that wheel. At this point they're spitballing in hopes that something will stick, and none of it is working as well as they had hoped. I think this time they're hanging their hopes on the fact that people like Sir Patrick Stewart, but I'm guessing this will also be a reinvented version of Picard that few Next Generation fans will recognize.

 

[Doctor Strange]

And tastes, attitudes, and the media landscape are so hugely different that maybe nothing can work. Trek may be just as dead as all the westerns, spy shows, variety shows, etc. that surrounded it in 1966. That was essentially how I felt after Nemesis and Enterprise sputtered to an end, and nothing since has really convinced me otherwise.

 

[Trenchfriend]

When I think about "Nemesis", it strikes me that it could have "rung in" todays Star Trek. I mean, the whole look seems to me like a kind of "pretaste" on the following movies.

But, it could have been a nice movie without that stupid plot.

 

[LizzieMaine]

There are an awful lot of people today who know Picard only as an internet meme.

And it doesn't help that of the Berman-era Trek series, TNG has by far dated the worst, both in its overall look and in many of its scripts -- but without the layer of campy Shatnerism that's helped to keep TOS in the public consciousness.

Which is a pity, because Berman-Trek had many good points, including a greater depth of characterization and much more of a sense of universe-building in the stories it told. If there's anything Neo-Picard ought to try to preserve, it's that aspect of the TNG-DS9-VOY era. But if "Discovery" is any indication, that'll be the first thing they throw away.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Nemesis is the only one of the pre-Abrams Trek movies that I have no memory of whatsoever. I know I saw it, because I saw all of them as soon as they were released, but there isn't a single frame of that one that remains in my memory.

 

[Trenchfriend]

Nemesis is the only one of the pre-Abrams Trek movies that I have no memory of whatsoever. I know I saw it, because I saw all of them as soon as they were released, but there isn't a single frame of that one that remains in my memory.

No wonder. That's the whole problem with Nemesis. The stupid story and the boringness. And no TNG-feel. Forgettable...

I got the DVD, but didn't watch it for years. I don't feel like it.

 

[Formeruser012523]

Nemesis is the only one of the pre-Abrams Trek movies that I have no memory of whatsoever. I know I saw it, because I saw all of them as soon as they were released, but there isn't a single frame of that one that remains in my memory.

You could be quoting me, but I'm quoting you. Quoteception? I honestly have NO idea what went on in Nemesis, but I think I went to the theater and saw it when it came out. Why don't I remember? What was it about that movie besides it's apparent boringness?

Stopped watching ST post 7of9. I couldn't anymore. A vacuum sealed Jeri Ryan? I just, no. And I actually groaned at the tv when Discovery was announced in the first place. What could Sir Patrick do? And if Picard is a revamped version of himself, why bother?

 

[Doctor Strange]

I watched Nemesis recently for the first time since it was in theaters... and it was even weaker than I recalled. Apart from vague curiosity I had to satisfy about the villain, the Romulan Picard clone Shinzon - was he really played by a young, skinny Tom Hardy?!? (Yes!) - it was a slog. As Trenchfriend notes, despite the presence of the TNG cast, it has virtually no TNG feel. It looks forward to the Abramsverse approach: big dumb action films in Trek drag.

 

[Edward]

This Picard series strikes me as a pretty obvious desperation move to keep the franchise ongoing.

The Abramsverse movies are showing diminishing returns and having backstage difficulties (did anybody see the recent news that the next one - which was somehow supposed to include Chris Hemsworth's George Kirk, probably through more dumb alternate timeline/time travel shenanigans - was derailed over contract disputes with both Hemsworth AND Chris Pine?) And there's an allegedly good new Trek series running on CBS All Access... that even hardcore, lifelong mega-fans like myself and Alex aren't watching.

Yip. The studio had negotiated and agreed on a pay deal for the next film with both actors, and then tried to reneg on that when they didn't make as much money out of the latest one as expected. Result: both actors walked away. TBH, I don't think Hemsworth is such a big hit to them - a fine actor and a box-office draw, yes, but his role was limited. He was an unknown then (two years before his Thor breakout), so in terms of story mechanics could easily be replaced. The much bigger hit will be losing Pine: him being a convincing stand-in for Shatner and being such a central player.... yeesh. It'd be arguably harder than replacing Zachery Quinto as Spock.

I liked the first two Abrams films, fwiw. Not seen the more recent one.

TBH, though, I'm not sure any of the TNG films were all that. I particularly remember cringing at how badly written First Contact was, with all the rampant - "oh yeah, we're from the future and you invent this, here you go...." stuff. Just lazy.

So let's get Patrick Stewart, since the nostalgia demographics have moved on from aging boomers of the TOS era to folks who view TNG as their "main" Trek series anyway. (Don't get me wrong, I dearly love TNG, but I was already in my mid-30s when it aired... and it didn't have the same life-changing impact on me as the show I watched from 11 to 14 did!)

He's arguably the nearest thing to Leonard Nimoy the franchise has left.

There are an awful lot of people today who know Picard only as an internet meme.

And it doesn't help that of the Berman-era Trek series, TNG has by far dated the worst, both in its overall look and in many of its scripts -- but without the layer of campy Shatnerism that's helped to keep TOS in the public consciousness.

Which is a pity, because Berman-Trek had many good points, including a greater depth of characterization and much more of a sense of universe-building in the stories it told. If there's anything Neo-Picard ought to try to preserve, it's that aspect of the TNG-DS9-VOY era. But if "Discovery" is any indication, that'll be the first thing they throw away.

The aesthetics have certainly dated more than any other Trek series I've watched - moreso the first season or two. Not unwatchably so, though yes the unsubtly and syrupy treatment of things like drug addiction and whatnot is often less USS Enterprise explores the universe and more Masters of the Universe... That said, the bit that always gave me the rage was Wesley Crusher. Rare is the character on television (apart from, perhaps, all the 'Friends') that I've found so grating.... what were they thinking of!?

 

[HanauMan]

I guess he was for the young kids to identify with.

Funny enough, I hated the Wesley character too but love the way Wil Wheaton plays up on his TNG character on TBBT.

 

[p51]

What was the last episode that you've seen, and of which series? Did you like the episode? Did it strike you in any particular manner, as being special or unique?

No to poke too much fun (as I love sci-fi and Trek, too), but you have to watch this starting at 1:49-