Star Trek

[LizzieMaine]

Wesley was Gene Roddenberry's own "Mary Sue." I thought the character was terribly handled in TNG, and I thought DS9 did a woneerful bit of meta-commentary on it with the character arcs of Jake Sisko and Nog the Ferengi. Jake, groomed from childhood for Starfleet, wanted nothing to do with it -- while Nog, first seen as an illiterate petty thief, grew up to become a courageous Starfleet officer who distinguished himself in combat.

 

[HanauMan]

Funny enough, there has been some debate on the Wesley and Jake Sisko characters within the Army Brat community and some wondering whether the writers had a similar background growing up within a military culture.

 

[Edward]

I guess he was for the young kids to identify with.

Funny enough, I hated the Wesley character too but love the way Wil Wheaton plays up on his TNG character on TBBT.

Yes, Wheaton's handled it very well, with huge grace and good humour. He could be a model for some of the others who've had their careers similarly shafted by dreadful roles, like the guy that played.... I'm having a senior moment, George Lucas' Jamaican racist stereotyped digital thingy in Phantom Menace....

He was obviously thrown in for the kiddy audience - maybe part of me was rejecting that level of being patronised? I was twelve in 1986.

Wesley was Gene Roddenberry's own "Mary Sue." I thought the character was terribly handled in TNG, and I thought DS9 did a woneerful bit of meta-commentary on it with the character arcs of Jake Sisko and Nog the Ferengi. Jake, groomed from childhood for Starfleet, wanted nothing to do with it -- while Nog, first seen as an illiterate petty thief, grew up to become a courageous Starfleet officer who distinguished himself in combat.

I missed most of the later DS9 seasons, but from what I gather they did indeed do it a lot better then. Also cute that they did see a Ferengi in Starfleet, what with a Ferengi on the bridge being one of the giveaways to Riker he was in a simulation in one TNG episode (Minuette? Something along those lines? Wasn't the episode named after the 'wife' character who turned out to be based on his digital fantasy girlfriend from the Holodeck after he'd split from Deanna Troi?). Unimaginable to Riker in much the same way as a Klingon on the Enterprise bridge would have been unthinkable to Kirk...

 

[LizzieMaine]

Ah, holodeck episodes. "I am not a Merry Man!" "I am the Goddess of Empathy!"

I thought DS9 tended to be a bit more realistic about such technology would actually be used -- Quark basically used his holosuites as space brothels. I think Riker had a running account there. "Vulcan Love Slave II: The Revenge!"

 

[Zombie_61]

Yes, Wheaton's handled it very well, with huge grace and good humour. He could be a model for some of the others who've had their careers similarly shafted by dreadful roles, like the guy that played.... I'm having a senior moment, George Lucas' Jamaican racist stereotyped digital thingy in Phantom Menace....

You're thinking of Ahmed Best. It's been reported that he initially thought being cast in a Star Wars movie would be his big break as an actor, but that he later admitted he had considered suicide after the mostly negative response to Jar Jar Binks. The role didn't quite kill his career as an actor, but it didn't help. I'm not a fan of the character, but I don't blame Mr. Best for that.

 

[HanauMan]

Yes, Wheaton's handled it very well, with huge grace and good humour.

There have, of course, been many guest stars on the show but probably one of the best performances was by George Takai giving advice to Howard. Compared to George Takai and Wil Wheeton, I thought that the other Star Trek guest stars were a tad, well, wooden in that show.

Talking about Ahmed Best, I can't but contrast him with the great actor James Earl Jones (the voice of Darth Vader) and his very funny performance with Jim Parsons in TBBT (with Carrie Fisher as a bonus).

 

[Edward]

There have, of course, been many guest stars on the show but probably one of the best performances was by George Takai giving advice to Howard. Compared to George Takai and Wil Wheeton, I thought that the other Star Trek guest stars were a tad, well, wooden in that show.

Talking about Ahmed Best, I can't but contrast him with the great actor James Earl Jones (the voice of Darth Vader) and his very funny performance with Jim Parsons in TBBT (with Carrie Fisher as a bonus).

"I bet you like Star Wars."

<scowl>

<pause>

<grin>

"I like Star Wars too!"

JEJ was an absolute joy in that sequence - you could see he was having a ball, gently having fun at the expense of fandom but with that genuine appreciation of it at the same time. Reminiscent of Leonard McCoy in that regard.

Takei was tremendous - "And yet here I am!" - he's had a lot of fun, I think, with his sexuality since he came out publicly, and his gentle humour with it makes him a wonderful advocate for understanding.

Wheeton's role is what, I suspect, inspired the set-up for the sitcom "Don't Trust the B**** in Apartment 25", in which Wossname From Dawson's Creek similarly plays himself as a send up of the audience's media-based perception of him. I do always warm to people who can laugh at themselves.

 

[Edward]

You're thinking of Ahmed Best. It's been reported that he initially thought being cast in a Star Wars movie would be his big break as an actor, but that he later admitted he had considered suicide after the mostly negative response to Jar Jar Binks. The role didn't quite kill his career as an actor, but it didn't help. I'm not a fan of the character, but I don't blame Mr. Best for that.

Oh, completely. The only person who ruined Star Wars was George Lucas - whatever Disney do now, it is simply impossible for them to make a film as bad as the Phantom Menace (though with Solo they gave it a damn good go...). He killed quite a few people's careers, I think - Natalie Portman really struggled to find work for a long time post-TPM.

 

[Formeruser012523]

There are an awful lot of people today who know Picard only as an internet meme.

And it doesn't help that of the Berman-era Trek series, TNG has by far dated the worst, both in its overall look and in many of its scripts -- but without the layer of campy Shatnerism that's helped to keep TOS in the public consciousness.

Which is a pity, because Berman-Trek had many good points, including a greater depth of characterization and much more of a sense of universe-building in the stories it told. If there's anything Neo-Picard ought to try to preserve, it's that aspect of the TNG-DS9-VOY era. But if "Discovery" is any indication, that'll be the first thing they throw away.

Speaking of memes, just thought I'd stop by and leave this here:

 

[Trenchfriend]

Still damn good blueprint of acting.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Q in a space leisure suit is one of the funniest things Trek has ever given us.

 

[Trenchfriend]

Restarting Nemesis right now from my regular 2006s DVD on 2007s storebrand DVD Player in original tone.

 

[Trenchfriend]

Minutes ago, I got a "Q-moment".

It was about, let's call it a "present/gift" from other people to me, that was indirectly due to me, but I didn't want it. Now, I finally accepted it after some weeks, so that there is peace.

I remembered, what Q said to Picard in the short version, that a stupid man would have played his game further and rather "die", instead of indulging one time.

Maybe, it came to my mind, because I watched, yesterday:

 

[Fading Fast]

Speaking of memes, just thought I'd stop by and leave this here:

Being upfront, I never really liked TNG as it was too touchy feely, too liberal '80s politics for my taste, but this scene highlights some of the best and worst it had to offer. Q was clearly some of TNG best; as was Picard (and his voice); as was Worf and his laconic delivery. As to the worst - Deanna Troi, possibly the most annoying character on any ST series. Every word she speaks is like fingernails a chalkboard to me. If I was Picard, she'd have been left on some planet somewhere or simply shot out into space when no one else was looking.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I liked Deanna a bit better after they got her out of those ridiculous boobie-suits and put her in a regular uniform, but it struck me as odd that no other ship in the fleet seemed to need a counselor sitting right there on the bridge. Doesn't Starfleet do any psychological screening on its command-level officers? (Judging from most of the admirals we say, clearly not.)

The Sisko didn't need any counselor -- Ezri nonwithstanding. If something bothered him he just went out and punched it in the face.

 

[Trenchfriend]

Ok, the original Q-statement from TNG: "Q Who" was:

"Another man would have been humiliated to say those words, even to the point of sacrificing himself and his entire ship rather than admit he needed help."

You see again, that's, what TNG gave us (german) primary school-kids in the early 90s for life.

 

[Zombie_61]

...As to the worst - Deanna Troi, possibly the most annoying character on any ST series. Every word she speaks is like fingernails a chalkboard to me. If I was Picard, she'd have been left on some planet somewhere or simply shot out into space when no one else was looking.

I think the real problem with Deanna Troi was that Marina Sirtis wasn't a particularly believable actress in the early seasons and seemed to be uncomfortable, stiff, and entirely too focused on disguising her English accent while attempting a completely fictional *Betazoid accent. She got better once she finally relaxed into the role and stopped trying so hard, but as best I can remember that took two or three seasons.

I liked Deanna a bit better after they got her out of those ridiculous boobie-suits and put her in a regular uniform...

One of the things I didn't like about the Next Generation era was the overall aesthetics, and the return to the "onesie" uniforms was a part of that. They looked uncomfortable and impractical, and after-the-fact the regular cast members have confirmed they were. With regards to Troi's "boobie suits", the fact that she initially didn't wear the same uniform as the rest of the crew/cast gave me the impression that Troi was more "independent contractor" than "Starfleet officer" despite her rank as Lieutenant Commander. That being said, Troi was clearly supposed to be the "eye candy" on the bridge (Denise Crosby's Lieutenant Yar being too androgynous/tomboyish) and I wonder how much input Marina Sirtis had on Troi's wardrobe--based on photos I've seen of her attending some conventions she doesn't appear to be adverse to "showing off the girls" to some degree.

...but it struck me as odd that no other ship in the fleet seemed to need a counselor sitting right there on the bridge. Doesn't Starfleet do any psychological screening on its command-level officers? (Judging from most of the admirals we say, clearly not.)...

Enterprise was Starfleet's flagship, so within the Trek universe I justify Troi's presence as being a "luxury" that other starships might not have had. Of course, out here in the real world I know it was just another plot device that the writers could use or ignore as they saw fit.


*Sirtis herself has acknowledged this to some degree, saying the show's producers left it up to her to create Troi's accent. "The Captain is supposed to be French but he speaks with a British accent. Why the hell should I be doing an accent?"

 

[LizzieMaine]

The ATM at my bank used to speak in a synthetic electronic voice that sounded exactly like Deanna Troi, to the point where I was wondering how they got Sirtis to do it.

I never bought her character, although after they introduced Lwaxana, I at least understood why she was like that. Anybody with a mother like that would be like that.

As for uniforms, my favorites remain the original Pike-era outfits from the two TOS pilot films. Who wouldn't want to zoom thru space in a comfortable sweatshirt and slacks?

 

[Formeruser012523]

Being upfront, I never really liked TNG as it was too touchy feely, too liberal '80s politics for my taste, but this scene highlights some of the best and worst it had to offer. Q was clearly some of TNG best; as was Picard (and his voice); as was Worf and his laconic delivery. As to the worst - Deanna Troi, possibly the most annoying character on any ST series. Every word she speaks is like fingernails a chalkboard to me. If I was Picard, she'd have been left on some planet somewhere or simply shot out into space when no one else was looking.

I liked Deanna a bit better after they got her out of those ridiculous boobie-suits and put her in a regular uniform, but it struck me as odd that no other ship in the fleet seemed to need a counselor sitting right there on the bridge. Doesn't Starfleet do any psychological screening on its command-level officers? (Judging from most of the admirals we say, clearly not.)

The Sisko didn't need any counselor -- Ezri nonwithstanding. If something bothered him he just went out and punched it in the face.

Deanna was annoying for the most part, but Westley (Wesley?) was far FAR worse to me. I'd have enjoyed an ep of him being shot out into space or left on some far off planet.

Her finally getting a real uniform was a long time coming. I do remember the late Mrs. Roddenberry saying her husband liked having pretty "eye-candy" around on TOS, though. So, her wardrobe being what it was really was pretty tame compared to previous incarnations. Could've been a lot worse.

 

[Zombie_61]

...I never bought her character, although after they introduced Lwaxana, I at least understood why she was like that. Anybody with a mother like that would be like that...

I always wondered why they never mentioned Lwaxana Troi served with Captain Pike.