Squadron Patches

[Juanito]

Have we decided...?

Is there a definitive resourse for researching patches?

Seems a great pity if there isn't.

Well, I wouldn't say definitive as I know that there are some collectors and patch painters who specialize in patches only and have some immense resources they have collected over the years, but a good place to start is the two books edited by Maurer Maurer entitled Combat Squadrons of the Air Force World War II and AF Combat Units of World War II.

There are some technical errors in the books (i.e. patches that have been updated to reflect units that had their patches updated when jets became the norm), but as a central place, it is overall a good reference.

The most stunning reproduction patches I have ever seen were done by a guy who used to make them for Charles DiSipio of what is now History Preservation Associates (it was Nose Art Unlimited back in those days), in the very late 1980's to about 1990 or so. I have heard that this person (I can't remember his name) stopped painting patches shortly after he did mine in 1990 or early 1991, but the did one of the 65th Fighter Squardron for me that was so detailed it was unreal. Also, while the finish of my Eastman jacket has nealy worn off, the patch showed not one speck of flaking.

As far as putting patches on jackets, put them on the reproductions all you want, but embellishing an original A-2 borders on sacrilege.

 

[Zemke Fan]

There isn't...

Is there a definitive resourse for researching patches?

The sheer number of units was/is staggering. The Disney team -- alone -- did something like 1,200 designs. I have thought about trying to put together a book, but the task seems nothing less than overwhelming!

 

[Zemke Fan]

Ahhh...

I've painted one jacket and put the patch of the 56th FG on the front.

... the real test of your knowledge (either of the 56th or Latin) is the phrase cave tonitrum = "Beware the Thunderbolt." Pretty cool, no?

 

[thunderw21]

... the real test of your knowledge (either of the 56th or Latin) is the phrase cave tonitrum = "Beware the Thunderbolt." Pretty cool, no?

Guy: "Hey man, what do those words on your jacket mean?"
Me: "Beware the Thunderbolt."
Guy: "Wha?" [huh]

 

[Zemke Fan]

Okay, NOT a quick comeback, but...

Guy: "Hey man, what do those words on your jacket mean?"
Me: "Beware the Thunderbolt."
Guy: "Wha?" [huh]

Me: This insignia from WWII was for the group who flew airplanes nicknamed "the Thunderbolt." It's a little play on words.

 

[Atticus Finch]

As a side note... I seem to remember the patch in "The Natural" was described by Hobbs as a some kind of squadron insignia. I assume this was invented for the film. Does anyone know if it matches anything historically?

Kind regards,
Magnoli

Hi,

When Roy Hobbs was a child, his father died suddenly of a heart attack. The night of the father's death, lightning struck a large hickory tree on the Hobbs family farm. Hobbs carved his bat, "Wonderboy" from the wood of that tree. When he finished, he decorated Wonderboy with a bolt of lightning and the symbol was later adopted by Hobbs' team as an icon of the team's achievement.

Yes, I am a great fan of the film.


Attius

 

[CBI]

Did anyone say patches? I used to have a huge collection of squadron patches 20-25 years ago. I sold them all/gave them away - d'oh!!!! A good WWII resource for patches: Disney Dons Dog Tags by Rawls and Smith - great book of Disney designed WWII insignia however there are MANY errors. There is an excellent website out there, something like brimiljeep. The collector is Brain French (not sure of the first name), he lives in California. A lot of the patches shown are repros even though he claims they are not but he has MANY and the ID work has been good. JUST DON'T ATTEMPT TO PURCHASE ANYTHING FROM HIM - VERY SHADY and my only militaria experience where my money was basically stolen! Still, a good resource. Jon Maguire’s Flight jacket books (I am sure all of you know these) are good resources for patch placement. There are a number of good books about different air forces 8th, 9th in WWII that go into detail and lots of stuff online. Most online sites dedicated to a unit include some insignia. There is a GREAT cbi history site listing all units in the China Burma India theater and includes many unit insignia. Personally, I stick with original patches. The prices are VERY high but they have got it over all of the repros and you can find some great stuff out there. Yes, the are expensive, just saw a CBI unit patch on eBay go for over $2,000!!!!!!!!!!!! If you can, get the squadron patch first then build from there (that will run you about $400 but worth it). AAF, CBI theater and numbered shoulder patches are pretty common on eBay (originals) about $75-150 each. Original blood chits can be had for $200-$300 and there are some good folks who do name strips. Originals can be sewn on orig or premium repro jackets to great effect. As far as the look, patches or not, its anyone's call. Getting them painted is also cool if you can have someone get the period “not-too-polished” look just right. I guess here is the question: How would you feel if you saw a guy walk into a store wearing a police jacket or a fireman’s jacket, or a Civil War coat, or a Star Trek uniform. Jackets with patches tend to be a bit like a costume – BUT VERY COOL. The A-2's were military issues, decked out with patches, worn post-war by vets, passed on to friends and family and then became a unique fashion item (with a resurgence in the 1970 - 80's especially in Asian countries). I agree with many folks that I would avoid rank insignia and wings. Easy to avoid with an A-2 since the name strip was most common. Also, think about avoiding any violent subjects as many folks are uncomfortable with this: patches with bombs, machine guns, skulls, etc. Yes, I know this eliminates most of the options (and they are military jackets!!) but many people don't get it. Sorry, in general women DON'T like the violent stuff and its tough to explain to kids. Hey, what's Donald Duck holding in his hand? .................... uhm........ a bomb .............. oh ................ a bowling ball. Why is he throwing a bowling ball over his shoulder like that? He looks really mean! Seen all of this before ............. awkward! Sounds crazy but if you get a repro patch, scrunch it up in your hands, rub dirt on it, give it some age - looks great! My personal preference is a premium "worn" A-2 repro Goodwear – THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! with real patches. The best balance for me. Love original jackets but too worried about damage to feel real comfortable with them!

 

[Juanito]

You know, I just thought of another good starting point (I have been away from flying jackets and WWII aviation related things for quite a while and am just gettin back into it).

Find a copy of the June 1943 issue of National Geographic. Of course this was early in the war and there were a lot of other units created afterthat, but if you want period historical accuracy this is a good reference and starting point.

 

[Zemke Fan]

These run about $50...

You know, I just thought of another good starting point (I have been away from flying jackets and WWII aviation related things for quite a while and am just gettin back into it).

Find a copy of the June 1943 issue of National Geographic. Of course this was early in the war and there were a lot of other units created afterthat, but if you want period historical accuracy this is a good reference and starting point.

... and I am planning on making mine available for sale. Found it GENERALLY useful, but not for a specific project I was working on.

 

[Juanito]

... and I am planning on making mine available for sale. Found it GENERALLY useful, but not for a specific project I was working on.

True. Many times it is hard to judge "where" a person is "at" when it comes to these things. It is good to know there is another person out there that is a fanatic about history and accuracy as are many of us!

 

[Juanito]

Also, think about avoiding any violent subjects as many folks are uncomfortable with this: patches with bombs, machine guns, skulls, etc. Yes, I know this eliminates most of the options (and they are military jackets!!) but many people don't get it. Sorry, in general women DON'T like the violent stuff and its tough to explain to kids. Hey, what's Donald Duck holding in his hand? .................... uhm........ a bomb .............. oh ................ a bowling ball. Why is he throwing a bowling ball over his shoulder like that? He looks really mean! Seen all of this before ............. awkward!

Funny you should mention this...

As mentioned earlier, I had a patch of the 65th Fighter Squardron done (see the avitar) and sewn to my Eastman A-2 in 1990. I went to graduate school at the University of Oregon which is an unbelievably liberal, crunchy, hippy type place (not to be confused with Oregon State University), but they have a decent MBA program.

Anyway, were are in orientation week for MBA school in that awkward getting acquainted with everyone phase, and this woman in my MBA class sees the patch on the jacket and says, "Hey, that art work is really neat. Is that a variation on a French Rooster?" So, inevatibly, she wants to take a closer look. "What is that on his wing, it looks like a block of wood or something? Ah...it is chip on his shoulder.

"What is on his head? And why is there a Shamrock around his neck?"

"What are those...spikes on his legs? Are you into cock fighting or something? I don't understand. None of this seems very pleasant.

So, I explain the intricacies of the patch and tell her it is from WWII. I think from then on she pretty much thought I was a warmonger. Needless to say, we never worked together on any projects. Oh, well.

 

[Windsock]

You know, I just thought of another good starting point (I have been away from flying jackets and WWII aviation related things for quite a while and am just gettin back into it).

Find a copy of the June 1943 issue of National Geographic. Of course this was early in the war and there were a lot of other units created afterthat, but if you want period historical accuracy this is a good reference and starting point.

Thanks for that tip- just bought one off Ebay...

 

[carter]

I have a question regarding USAAF patches.

My Dad was an enlisted mechanic in the USAAF during WWII. I know that he was posted to Walla Walla, WA and Rapid City, SD. I do not know what Group, Squadron, or other unit he was in. I know there were US Continental Defense Squadrons and believe one of them was the 99th Heavy Bomber which later became the 99th Super Heavy Bomber before it was posted to the UK.

Does anyone have any information that would help me determine what patches he might have worn?

My Dad was discharged at Fitzsimmons Army Hospital in Denver where he was treated for a severe injury to his back.

 

[DavidVillaJr]

Here's a "resource" I found while searching WWI stuff.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned/seen his page before.

http://members.aol.com/brimiljeep/WebPages/SquadronPatchAAFPage.html

Lots and lots of pictures of patches.

dv

 

[Mr. 'H']

Important Question

Are squadron patches supposed to be worn on the right or left breast?
Just occured to me as I've seen both in pictures....

 

[CBI]

trying to post photos

 

[CBI]

In most cases WWII A-2's have squadron patches on the left breast. On the right is much less common.

 

[CBI]

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[CBI]

 

[Mr. 'H']

In most cases WWII A-2's have squadron patches on the left breast. On the right is much less common.

Mmmm... that's what I thought but then I saw a member here with one on the other side.