Spear point collar shirts

[Tomasso]

It's a close call but probably not.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Oh come on. This is no fun anymore. It is nice to discuss very fine details but it doesn't help to be nitpicky what should be posted and what not.

Are there better pictures of the Matt Deckard Shirt somewhere?

 

[Feraud]

This nitpicking is ridiculous.

 

[mayserwegener]

Hans Albers a German actor of the 20s and onward. Casual but works for me.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

.
I remember when the shoe was on the other foot, so I sympathize.


From the 1960s to the very late '80s, English spread ('cutaway') collared shirts were virtually impossible to find in the U.S.A. I wanted one (because no one wore them!), and had to hunt many thrift stores before finding a rare 'Polo Ralph Lauren' version. At the time, I couldn't afford to have one custom made.

 

[Two Types]

I feel it is inevitable the threads will spread out to cover similar themes. It is natural, for example, that a thread on Oxford Bags would eventually make reference to the 'College Pants' (or whatever the correct term is) that became popular in the USA. Yet a purist will tell you they are not the same thing - and most photos/illustrations that you see will indicate this. But they are closely related and as such naturally sit together on a forum such as this.

Furthermore, I did not see any complaints when the thread concerning 'Spearpoint collar shirts - how much would you pay?' moved into discussing trousers and waistcoats. It was just a natural progression - and hopefully will have drummed up some business for the makers. As others have already mentioned: we come here to share information and learn from each other. Even the most dedicated collector/historian can always learn something new.

On another point: does anyone actually know where and when the term 'spearpoint collar' was first used?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Does anyone actually know where and when the term 'spearpoint collar' was first used?

I believe that in the U.S. in the '30s, it was generically called a 'long-point' collar. Perhaps a spearpoint as well ... or perhaps it was a British term. When named (in the U.S.), the 4" version was called a 'Barrymore' collar, and 4.5"+ versions were known as 'Hollywood' collars.

 

[Two Types]

I believe that in the U.S. in the '30s, it was generically called a 'long-point' collar. Perhaps a spearpoint as well ... or perhaps it was a British term. When named (in the U.S.), the 4" version was called a 'Barrymore' collar, and 4.5"+ versions were known as 'Hollywood' collars.

I think I will check the Oxford English Dictionary (full version) to find their earliest record.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I think I will check the Oxford English Dictionary (full version) to find their earliest record.

The earliest reference I've found online is a 1939 copyright for a "twin-spear-point collar", whatever that is.


The earliest online reference to a 'Barrymore' collar dates back to 1929: http://books.google.com/books?id=R_...X&ei=2En0TsKZFOagiQKEm-3RDg&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBDgU

And here's a Barrymore collar reference from 1930: http://books.google.com/books?id=tu...X&ei=Ukr0TuKgDaKbiQLltK2rDg&ved=0CEsQ6AEwBDge

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Did some more research on this specific collar. Turns out that it was called a 'California' collar, and was especially popular for sports shirts (though dress shirts also had it). Very low-set, with a wide "v" and thick, very long points. Every vintage gabardine shirt from the '40s seems to have one.

 

[Two Types]

So you want to know the derivation of a term so that you can disregard its proper usage......priceless.........

I don't come to this forum to be insulted. I posed a genuine question. I assumed that members would be prepared to offer genuine answers (as Marc had earlier done).

If you look at the shirt photographs I originally posted, I did not describe it as a spearpoint. I was merely following the example from Paddy's original post in this thread. As such, it was the logical place to post my photographs.

Furthermore, only by knowing the derivation of a term can one interpret its correct usage.

 

[cookie]

So this Jantzen shouldn't be here then either..?

That's a very nice shirt FWIW....

 

[mayserwegener]

I believe that in the U.S. in the '30s, it was generically called a 'long-point' collar. Perhaps a spearpoint as well ... or perhaps it was a British term. When named (in the U.S.), the 4" version was called a 'Barrymore' collar, and 4.5"+ versions were known as 'Hollywood' collars.

What type is Hans Albers is wearing here? It appears buttoned but with a wider space. I think this photo is from around 1940.

 

[Johnny J]

Did some more research on this specific collar. Turns out that it was called a 'California' collar, and was especially popular for sports shirts (though dress shirts also had it). Very low-set, with a wide "v" and thick, very long points. Every vintage gabardine shirt from the '40s seems to have one.

Thanks Marc for doing that research.

 

[Matt Deckard]

 

[resortes805]

I would consider the shirt on the top a spear point and the shirt on the bottom a california collar....or would they both be classified as california collars?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

This is a California collar. No question about it.

 

[Matt Deckard]

[video=youtube;w1FgpBxXho4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1FgpBxXho4[/video]

 

[Matt Deckard]

 

[Matt Deckard]

So is the Hollywood collar one with a bit more spread to the points so it can be warn open and more casually?