Some perspective on leather jacket pricing?

[technovox]

I was just idly thumbing through the J Crew catalog that arrived in the mail a few minutes ago, when I noticed they had a “Leather Flight Jacket” going for $1095. Yes, I had to read it again. $1095. No customization, only available in standard S/M/L sizes, etc. “Imported” which could mean anything. J Crew’s one footnote to quality on this particular style jacket was the “carefully washed oiled Italian leather with authentic details”.
If this kind of mail order J Crew leather jacket is going for $1095, I’m thinking that the prices of some of the vendors on here (notably a couple out of Seattle/Scotland) are starting to look like a frigging bargain, when comparing the quality, legacy, leather selection, and customization options they offer for nearly the same price. Just my humble observation/opinion.

 

[nick123]

Totally a bargain. But with that said, it's apparent they aren't ripping us off, which is most admirable in this day and age.

 

[Big J]

I was just idly thumbing through the J Crew catalog that arrived in the mail a few minutes ago, when I noticed they had a “Leather Flight Jacket” going for $1095. Yes, I had to read it again. $1095. No customization, only available in standard S/M/L sizes, etc. “Imported” which could mean anything. J Crew’s one footnote to quality on this particular style jacket was the “carefully washed oiled Italian leather with authentic details”.
If this kind of mail order J Crew leather jacket is going for $1095, I’m thinking that the prices of some of the vendors on here (notably a couple out of Seattle/Scotland) are starting to look like a frigging bargain, when comparing the quality, legacy, leather selection, and customization options they offer for nearly the same price. Just my humble observation/opinion.

The thing is, I don't have a problem with Aero or Goodwear being expensive- I know that staff costs are high, and these people deserve to make a living wage.
But a thousand dollars for a mall jacket? That's offensive, because you know that the people actually making it in India or China are getting peanuts.

 

[morrison2951]

Just say no to the mall jackets.

 

[thor]

I saw a "G-1 Flight Jacket" (no fur collar!) on the Bill's Khakis website selling for $1,695!!! I wonder how many they've sold (and to whom?!?!).

 

[Worf]

Yeah, I gave my co-workers an education once while eating in a diner. I saw a guy leaving with an obvious mall offering and I mentioned it. They asked "what makes a jacket "better" than another"? I replied one quick clue is multi-panel backs... the next is elastic cinches at the waist. I then went on to the quality and sourcing of leathers. I don't know how much they cared but at least I told em what's what. But I also added that some lesser jackets can be better than the sum of their parts. A tier 3 jacket might be more comfortable and beloved by someone than a FQHH Aero that seems like it'll NEVER break in. Whatever makes em happy I added, it's their money. I have the same attitude with deluded friends and co-workers who think that Bose is actually a product worth having much less spending thousands on.

Worf

 

[oneterrifichog]

I saw a "G-1 Flight Jacket" (no fur collar!) on the Bill's Khakis website selling for $1,695!!! I wonder how many they've sold (and to whom?!?!).

Yes and the label says "Made in America" Cockpit Leathers.....Bill's Khakis is making a mighty big markup I am thinking....

 

[Seb Lucas]

Doesn't bother me at all. Capitalism throws up silly prices for many things not just jackets. In this town people are paying $400,000 for an ordinary one bedroom apartment! But fashion is it's own market entirely. I personally won't pay that amount for a mall jacket or an Aero; even though I can afford the price I have set my own limits. You can see that a Vanson Model B at around $600 is the real bargain.

 

[Big J]

'A fool and his money are born every minute' or, something...

 

[tropicalbob]

It's always fun to see the verbal hijinx the mall-jacket vendors get up to in order to not tell the public exactly what that $1000.00+ jacket is made of.

 

[nick123]

My impression (just an impression) is for the really expensive ones, the appeal is the price, hype, and look surrounding the product vs actual quality (a jacket which will last a lifetime, built by hand, or with good ethical practices) or historical accuracy. As much as I want to yell at those folks and tell them there are infinitely superior jackets at a small fraction of that cost, I've realized that groups of people just live with different mindsets, and find pleasure in different things than we do. If they're going for "a look" and little else, but it brings them happiness or contentment, I say all the better, and it shouldn't get in the way of our trip.
The problem could lie with a company making more money off of them than should be, but that is the beauty of a free market. A company has the freedom to price as they please; and if someone has a problem with it, theoretically they're free to start their own company and price as they feel appropriate.
Lack of knowledge might be another factor. Without the FL, I wouldn't have known these niche companies that represent a great value exist. They're still expensive for the average person ($500-$2000 is an investment, considering other more important life purchases can be made with that same cash) but it's a price that has to be paid for these companies to make a fair profit, given material and labor costs.

 

[Mark]

Hi Worf, just curious, I have a Bose, i'm no hi-fi buff but I always Bose were pretty good!
On the subject of leather I agree, Timberland often produce some very nice jackets at crazy prices, £700 up! But not a patch on my Highwayman in my opinion.

Yeah, I gave my co-workers an education once while eating in a diner. I saw a guy leaving with an obvious mall offering and I mentioned it. They asked "what makes a jacket "better" than another"? I replied one quick clue is multi-panel backs... the next is elastic cinches at the waist. I then went on to the quality and sourcing of leathers. I don't know how much they cared but at least I told em what's what. But I also added that some lesser jackets can be better than the sum of their parts. A tier 3 jacket might be more comfortable and beloved by someone than a FQHH Aero that seems like it'll NEVER break in. Whatever makes em happy I added, it's their money. I have the same attitude with deluded friends and co-workers who think that Bose is actually a product worth having much less spending thousands on.

Worf

 

[Big J]

It's always fun to see the verbal hijinx the mall-jacket vendors get up to in order to not tell the public exactly what that $1000.00+ jacket is made of.

For that kind of money for a mall jacket, it better be front quarter unicorn!

 

[TeeJay]

In Germany we have "normal" Shopping Malls for clothing which sell mainstream leather jackets from Diesel or others in a price range of 800-1500 Euros = 1000-2000$. And these jackets have thin leather, not comparable to any Horsehide thick Steerhide.

 

[Monitor]

Nick123 is right on the money. Regarding mall jackets, I've had this discussion more times than I care to remember - all my friends dress at the mall, and each year they buy their leathers there, usually on discounts, always choosing to forget that the last years purchase fell apart by itself just from hanging in the closet - and have reached a conclusion that people, in general, do not really care... Mall jackets are either super cheap, or expensive because of the brand name, and people just don't want to bother with what might exist in between. I know a girl who's regularly dropping $2000 on brand name jackets. Once I tried to talk to her about the quality of the stuff she's buying, but she concluded the conversation with - ...who would want to wear the same jacket next year?. Talk about different mindset...
This year she bought a Perfecto-styled jacket from Diesel. When I pointed out that this is the first time someone paid more for a cheap knock-off than what the original costs, she didn't quite understand my point, nor really cared to.

Though personally, I wouldn't mind buying a reasonably priced mall jacket if they weren't all so damn ugly. Especially in Europe.

Though, Seb Lucas made a very good point - Most expensive Vanson is $700. Model A is $500, Comet $450. What's excuse does LL/Langlitz/Aero/Schott/etc. has, again?

 

[mendelboaz]

In my opinion, mall clothing is one of the worsts pests to ever occupy this world, and people who frequent these mall clothing stores are nothing but sheep who really don't know the first thing of what they're talking about. Everything about it is just crazy, pointless and illogical. People like your friend, Monitor, really can make my blood boil. The trick, is, of course, not to let that happen talk about pointless. I say leave the stinkin' sh*te to the dumb sheep and let us reasonable, quality-seeking gentlemen who see the beauty in a well-made, heritage leather jacket have the best of the best.

 

[Plumbline]

I remember doing a fairly detailed workup based on ACTUAL machinist and cutter wages ( from discussions with Aero / Scott Leathers / BKS / Dobbs and a few others ) and also the ACTUAL cost of raw materials ( hide / lining / thread etc.) and also with (fairly accurate for the time - 2007 ) timelines for manufacture, web based sales / marketing and distribution and concluding that the full worked up cost of production and supply on a premium simple patterned e.g. Highwayman type jacket was somewhere in the region of £180-£200 in the UK and £215-225 in the USA ... the difference being the cost of distribution from a UK manufacturing base not accomodating any additional taxation / duties (and I was being fairly generous with my assumptions).

Now I'm fairly sure that the variable costs and fixed costs have not gone up hugely but lets assume 20% ( which should be more than accomodating) that puts the fully built up costs of a premium leather jacket at somewhere around £220-250 in the UK and £250-285 USA ... assuming a sales price in the region of £600 that puts a premium jacket in the 110-120% margin category ... which isn't too shabby.

This however puts the import / mall argument into true perspective ... when I was in charge of the M/C clothing project at Castrol in 2005 we were buing in REALLY GOOD Brazilian Steerhide ( 3oz min) M/C jackets manufactured in Vietnam at verified and approved manufacturing sites ( as used by Rukka etc. ) at around £75 per item and these were selling for £695 .... these were awsome jackets and manufactured to easilly comparible construction to the likes of Aero / Goodwear etc. using exceptional raw materials ( hides / zips / threads / studs etc. ) perhaps not as period correct but to incredibly exacting stds.

If I look at the construction of "mall jackets" and the likes of those sold in mall specialist stores e.g. Wilsons ..... I would put the fully built up cost of production at around £25-30 per piece perhaps up to £50 for complex units ..... which gives some idea of the markup. Then again .. we loungers wouldn't consider it unusual to pay £300 for an original B15N which probably generated somewhere in the region of $20 for the manufacturer.

Horses for courses .... you pays yer money and you takes yer choice ... never try to rationalise an emotive purchase and fashion is often an emotive purchase rather than a practical one ( as are most of the purchases we as "Loungers" make .... these things are worth what the consumer is willing to pay ..... and often times that isn't based on "material worth" e.g. A Goodwear A-2 but emotional worth.

 

[trapp]

Horses for courses .... you pays yer money and you takes yer choice ... never try to rationalise an emotive purchase and fashion is often an emotive purchase rather than a practical one ( as are most of the purchases we as "Loungers" make .... these things are worth what the consumer is willing to pay ..... and often times that isn't based on "material worth" e.g. A Goodwear A-2 but emotional worth.

This.

I love the lounge, and love leather. But I don't pretend that the amount of time and money that most loungers, myself included, have spent on researching, sizing, and purchasing leather jackets is an unqualified virtue or a purchasing model suitable to everyone.

I think we all know why we're here haunting 'outerwear' and it has a lot more to do with passion than smart economics.

 

[Monitor]

mendelboaz; well, that's fashion for you. Depends what you seek out of life, I guess, and since most people only wish to belong, nothing makes you blend in better than following fashion trends. It's understandable, I guess - and let's face it, what we're doing here, this is just another group we are all too happy to belong to. Better quality is just an added bonus and a great excuse. Don't forget, most of our favorite jackets were also mall - or rather, department store or mercantile plant, if you will - fashion items at some point.

That was really informative and interesting, Plumbline!

Huh... It may sound strange, but looking at the numbers, I think Aero's actually pretty fair with their prices, seeing how much they could be asking for their stuff.

 

[Seb Lucas]

In my opinion, mall clothing is one of the worsts pests to ever occupy this world, and people who frequent these mall clothing stores are nothing but sheep who really don't know the first thing of what they're talking about. Everything about it is just crazy, pointless and illogical. People like your friend, Monitor, really can make my blood boil. The trick, is, of course, not to let that happen talk about pointless. I say leave the stinkin' sh*te to the dumb sheep and let us reasonable, quality-seeking gentlemen who see the beauty in a well-made, heritage leather jacket have the best of the best.

Take a chill pill man. Mall stuff isn't cancer, it just isn't great. I'm happy to shop in malls on occasion and have been very happy with clothes I've bought there. I'm no dumb sheep, as you put it. And I'm sure that people who buy there are not to be looked down on.