Snap brim and rain

[belfastboy]

As jlee stated above, a snap brim is the result of a flanged brim i.e. the brim has been given a cupped shape all he way around by placing it on a flange, (which looks a little like a small toilet seat,) & then the brim steamed & pressed so it takes on the charateristic half rounded form of the flange. This has the effect of creating a lot of tension in the brim , almost like a spring, & so can be snapped down front or back & up again.
Non flanged brims don't have the necessary tension to be able to snap down or up & so must be steamed or moistened in some way & then shaped while damp, so as to retain the shape desired.
When flanged brimmed hats do get wet, it is recommended to let them dry, brim up all the way around.
In your case, because you dried the hat with the front of the brim down, you have lost the flange around the front & so it is now behaving like a partially unflanged brim. Short of takng the hat to hatter & having the brim re-flanged, what you could do is steam the front of the brim & shape it by hand, trying to get back that concave curve around the front of the brim & then let it dry, on a flat surface, brim snapped up all the way around. You should be able to refind the snap brim.
Rain does effect felt hats, they will become softer as the stiffener breaks down & depending on both the quality of the felt & stiffener, may become too floppy with time to hold a shape & so, will need to be re-stiffened.
In my experience, though many others will probably disagree with me, felt hats don't make good rain hats & apart from the unavoidable unforecast shower, it's best not to get them wet & if you do insist on wearing a felt hat under the rain, an umbrella is your friend.

To me the description of the hat and the price point points to a wool felt hat. They do not hold their shape as well as a decent fur felt hat and you will forever be pushing a rope. I have a hat collection and wear all of them in the rain to NO ill affect. I have some, Akubras for instance that are specifically my rain hats.....so when it is pouring outside one of the Akubras is worn. They thrive in the rain. I suggest you use this as a learning experience and when this particular hat wears out spend a few more bucks and upgrade. Check out the Akubra offerings from Everything Australian or Hats Direct. These would be the logical step up from your current.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I purchased a new fur felt hat (not vintage) with a 75 mm snap brim, the cheapest fur felt (not wool felt, mind you) hat I could find (79 euros, if I recall correctly). I love it and wear it constantly, but one night after walking home from a party, I was caught in a slight shower without an umbrella. I sat the hat to dry, front brim snapped down (up in the back), the way I wear it, over the ledge of a pile of stacked books.

The hat was wet but not soaked, although it gave off a weak scent that dog owners know from when their pets get wet. The next morning the hat looked brilliant; some of the unevenness of the brim was even gone. However, the front brim is now permanently in the down position (the back brim can be snapped up and down just fine). This is not actually a problem in itself, as the hat still looks good, but what worries me is what the next inevitable shower will do to my hat (I can't be sure, but I think also the felt of the crown is softer than before, although the creases look just like they did before).

My question is one I hope that a hatter can answer. How, exactly, is the snappiness of the brim created? What are the mechanics behind it, and how can it be lost by some dampness? Are there different ways to achieve this effect, and cheap hats just happen to favor one which is not water resistant? Is there likely to be further changes to the integrity of the hat following future rain showers and would hat stiffener reverse this effect of the rain?

It’s hard to imagine a new fur felt hat costing €79 that couldn’t stand a lot of softening up. Don’t worry about the crown. The rain probably did you a favor.

If you’re reluctant to steam and attempt to rehabilitate the hat on your own, take it to a hatter and have them reflange the brim. It’s not rocket science and it should be relatively cheap. You can also start looking for a flange of your own if you are a hat addict like some are...not me, I can stop any time.

Lesson learned: in the future let the hat dry naturally and slowly with the brim snapped up all the way around.


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[Winston Carter]

It’s hard to imagine a new fur felt hat costing €79 that couldn’t stand a lot of softening up. Don’t worry about the crown. The rain probably did you a favor.

If you’re reluctant to steam and attempt to rehabilitate the hat on your own, take it to a hatter and have them reflange the brim. It’s not rocket science and it should be relatively cheap. You can also start looking for a flange of your own if you are a hat addict like some are...not me, I can stop any time.

Lesson learned: in the future let the hat dry naturally and slowly with the brim snapped up all the way around.


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I agree. After a hat gets wet just shape it the way you wear it and let it dry overnight. Works for me.

 

[rpersson]

To me the description of the hat and the price point points to a wool felt hat. They do not hold their shape as well as a decent fur felt hat and you will forever be pushing a rope. I have a hat collection and wear all of them in the rain to NO ill affect. I have some, Akubras for instance that are specifically my rain hats.....so when it is pouring outside one of the Akubras is worn. They thrive in the rain. I suggest you use this as a learning experience and when this particular hat wears out spend a few more bucks and upgrade. Check out the Akubra offerings from Everything Australian or Hats Direct. These would be the logical step up from your current.

This is not a wool felt hat (I own one from Jaxon, that I regret buying). It is 100% fur felt according to the label and you can really tell the difference -- it is much lighter and thinner than the wool felt hat. The manufacturer is the German hat maker Fiebig.

A lot of people mention steam, but it was reshaped by cold rain water. This raises the question, why steam?

I mean, why steam rather than water to reshape a hat in? What are the benefits? To me it seems it would be much harsher on the felt (potentially causing shrinkage and what not). Steam would dry quicker, I guess, but that is about the only benefit I can see. Please, someone enlighten me.

 

[rockandrollrabbit]

It might not be wool, but the felt could be made from rabbit pelt. Felt made from beaver tends to be the best and in my experience holds up well in the rain.

 

[jlee562]

This is not a wool felt hat (I own one from Jaxon, that I regret buying). It is 100% fur felt according to the label and you can really tell the difference -- it is much lighter and thinner than the wool felt hat. The manufacturer is the German hat maker Fiebig.

A lot of people mention steam, but it was reshaped by cold rain water. This raises the question, why steam?

I mean, why steam rather than water to reshape a hat in? What are the benefits? To me it seems it would be much harsher on the felt (potentially causing shrinkage and what not). Steam would dry quicker, I guess, but that is about the only benefit I can see. Please, someone enlighten me.

Well gee, the entire hat industry has been doing it wrong this whole time I guess.

If you really want to get into the nifty gritty, yes, felts continue to felt over time. Modern felts especially, as they are not felted as densely as in the past and there is less attention paid to the stabilization and finishing of the felt.

A vintage hat body, for instance, might have aged for a year before it was used in production. A high quality hat will undergo ironing as one process to make the felt more durable. Cheaper hats cut corners which, over time, means the felt is susceptible to shrinkage. And yes, this is why beaver is generally considered superior, the individual barbs of fur felt together more tightly.

Can I guarantee this won't happen to a cheap hat? No. That's why I've never gotten my Christy's hat wet. However, since yours didn't taper immediately upon exposure to water as some folks claim of their Christy's hats, the chances of steam hurting your hat strikes me as negligible. And honestly, a felt hat that tapers upon normal exposure to steam is not a quality product that should be on your head anyways.

It's not "wrong" per se to use cold (distilled) water to shape a hat (just ask Roy Rogers), but in my experience, steam is always easier. It penetrates faster and more evenly as it activates/softens the shellac. Steam also has the effect of sort of "opening up the pores" of the hat (for lack of a better term), which is why one gives a quick burst of steam before brushing to help to brush away dirt and oils.

 

[moontheloon]

my advice ...

go buy a real hat

... and done

 

[Bamaboots]

my advice ...

go buy a real hat

... and done

LMAO! Two pages on this. Miss you moon.

 

[rpersson]

Stiffener =/= water protection.

Well gee, the entire hat industry has been doing it wrong this whole time I guess.

If you really want to get into the nifty gritty, yes, felts continue to felt over time. Modern felts especially, as they are not felted as densely as in the past and there is less attention paid to the stabilization and finishing of the felt.

A vintage hat body, for instance, might have aged for a year before it was used in production. A high quality hat will undergo ironing as one process to make the felt more durable. Cheaper hats cut corners which, over time, means the felt is susceptible to shrinkage. And yes, this is why beaver is generally considered superior, the individual barbs of fur felt together more tightly.

Can I guarantee this won't happen to a cheap hat? No. That's why I've never gotten my Christy's hat wet. However, since yours didn't taper immediately upon exposure to water as some folks claim of their Christy's hats, the chances of steam hurting your hat strikes me as negligible. And honestly, a felt hat that tapers upon normal exposure to steam is not a quality product that should be on your head anyways.

It's not "wrong" per se to use cold (distilled) water to shape a hat (just ask Roy Rogers), but in my experience, steam is always easier. It penetrates faster and more evenly as it activates/softens the shellac. Steam also has the effect of sort of "opening up the pores" of the hat (for lack of a better term), which is why one gives a quick burst of steam before brushing to help to brush away dirt and oils.

Apart from the sarcasm, thanks for your informative reply. The reason I ask is because ignorance gave me this surprise, and I want to know as much as possible so as to minimize the probability of further surprises, whether they be pleasant or not.

In case anyone is curious, I misquoted the price earlier, it was actually 89 euros.

 

[scottyrocks]

Steam will not harm the hat so long as you use about 5 or so seconds of it, and then work quickly.

Often I have to repeat the steaming to get exactly what I want.

Steam, shape, hold for several seconds when necessary. Repeat if necessary.

Just like many other tasks, the whole process becomes very easy after you've done it a couple/few times.

With steam, a hat is shaped and wearable in just a few minutes.

I used to wet hats and shape them, but I could only do it at night as it took quite a while for the hat to dry and be wearable again (in the morning).

 

[deadlyhandsome]

my advice ...

go buy a real hat

... and done

Harsh, but the truth often is. Good to see you make an appearance; we miss you around here.


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[scottyrocks]

I would like to see and then know what hat the OP is dealing with. Until then I am not passing any kind of judgment as to its quality.

 

[rpersson]

I tried steaming the hat, but could never get the "snap" back. No worries, I have it shaped in the snapped-down position permanently and used some of the wife's hairspray which gave it a lot of stiffness. Experiments prove that this helps the hat keep its shape even in the rain (although reapplication of the hairspray is eventually needed).

However, I was still curious about the snap brim functioning, so I took that other hat I own, the Jaxon Crushable Wool Felt, through a stroll in the rain to satisfy my own curiosity. This hat, mind you, was marketed as water resistant if I recall correctly. Also, it is crushable and thus supposedly very sturdy.

Here is what happened. I walked in the rain with the brim snapped down, but then after a while I decided it was dangerous to have it wet in the snapped down position and so kept the brim snapped up. I let it dry indoors over night (the hat was wet, but my head was dry, hence the hat was not drenched), with the hat placed on a flat surface and the brim snapped up all the way around.

Guess what happens? The "snap" of the brim is lost, except this time, it refuses to stay in anything but the "up" position. This is different compared to my fur felt hat, which can still be snapped up or down in the rear. Nevertheless, the brim somehow lost its snappiness even though the "curve", or "flange" -- or whatever you want to call it -- is still intact. Why is that?

 

[scottyrocks]

Wool felts do not respond to much of anything the way fur felt hats do. They sort of just lie there in whatever shape they were last given when wet.

 

[moehawk]

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/my-stetson-lost-its-snap.34618/
I used the technique described in post #11 to restore some snap back to a brim before I decided to break down and buy a flange. Worked well enough, but using proper equipment is always the way to go.