Smoking Jackets

[PADDY]

Holy Smoke, Gents smoking jackets in Northumberland!

Hi Ed. What an amazing coincidence, as BellyTank just quipped, we are almost neighbours.
I'm interested to know what patterns/samples you have used in your research prior to setting up the business of selling smoking jackets. They definitely do have that 'vintage' 30's look to them. Now, I certainly would cut a dash in one of those when I turned up to work for the Duchess of Northumberland! I also often take folk down to Matfen Hall, which isn't a million miles from you and have friends in Stocksfield (my God-daughter is there). It's all sounding very incestuous isn't it!
Out of interest, do you sell off seconds, that just haven't come up to scratch?
And maybe I could pop in some time and do a piece on your place, if it's appropriately vintage/gentlemanly geared for the likes of the Lounge here (background is journalism).
As you can tell, I'm very interested, as I have been hankering after a 'vintage' styled smoking jacket to go with my military trews for formal occasions. But it's like searching for the Holy Grail.
Good to have you on board here.

 

[yachtsilverswan]

Afternoon Gentlemen - your discussion has been just what I was hoping to find at the Fedora Lounge - insightful with referenced sources. The Cigar Aficionado article cited by Pyroxene is a thorough review of the style and use of these classy retro garments.

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Archives/CA_Show_Article/0,2322,384,00.html

As is often the case with vintage clothing, form followed function. Because men didn't run their suit to the dry cleaners every week to have smoke odors removed, they instead changed into a purpose made jacket after dinner. The rich velvet fabric would have absorbed the smoke odors of the after-dinner cigar, and protected their shirt, tie, and slacks from ash and odor.

I think most smoking jackets were worn with a brimless cap, like a fez, sometimes with tassel but more often without a tassel. The fez most often matched the jacket in color and material, but was sometimes made from silk rather than velvet, and sometimes of a contrasting color to match the stitched piping on the jacket. The fez was worn to protect a gentleman's hair from absorbing the smoky odor. Again - form followed function. (The smoking

jacket fez may be one of the few times a gentleman was to wear a hat inside a home). There is a photo of a fez and jacket in Cigar Aficionado's Holiday Guide

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Features/CA_Feature_Basic_Template/0,2344,1232,00.html

I called Turnbull & Asser (Beverly Hills 310-550-7600) - they charge $1,900 for the jacket, and another $200 for the fez - for that price a client should be able to have a jacket custom tailored. Their jacket is velvet with satin lining and button front closure - not a tied belt closure. The Turnbull & Asser jacket is the model featured in the Cigar Aficionado article:

http://www.turnbullandasser.com/turnbullandasser/formal.html

Gentlemen, it appears we all have expensive taste. Still - a very cool look for that after-dinner brandy & cigar.​

 

[yachtsilverswan]

The smoking jackets featured on the website cited by Ed Brown

http://www.smokingjackets.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Burgundy_1.html

seem to be of similar deisgn, and tailored from similar fabric as the Turnbull & Asser model. But the smokingjackets.co.uk jacket is 300 pounds sterling, vs $1,900 US for the Turnbull & Asser model. Both versions from British firms. I wonder what makes the T&A version three times more expensive.

 

[Rigby Reardon]

Can you say expensive?

http://www.bullockandjones.com/shop...jsp?itemID=51825&itemType=PRODUCT&sSearch=YES

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCat...erchant_Id=1&Section_Id=227&Product_Id=929530

I don't know, Matt...as of today, that first link is showing a jacket for $0...yep, ZERO. Oh, please let it be true, I just ordered 27 of them...

 

[edbrown]

I wonder what makes the T&A version three times more expensive.

One difference I can say straight off is that ours are not tailor made - however, since a Smoking Jacket is traditionally a "comfort" fit this shouldn't be an issue.

To cater fo rthis we do make some compromises - different people have different arm lengths so we have cuffs that can be adjusted to different lengths.

We do make more custom designs with belts, different silks, etc but these rapidly increase in cost as basically we try to avoid doing this. The custom made designs tend to be between ?Ǭ£350 and ?Ǭ£500 but they are still not tailored.

I'm in touch with Paddy nad at some time will hopefully get a sample jacket to him so he can see what they look like.

 

[edbrown]

Hi Ed. What an amazing coincidence, as BellyTank just quipped, we are almost neighbours.

Yes, small world. As I said in email - my son had a great letter from her Grace.

Unfortunately we don't have any seconds, even worse news is the price is likely to go up during the year due to an increase in material costs.

I'm looking intot he research element the manufacturer carried out and will let you know in due course.

 

[geo]

This one is on my list:

They used to have other colors too, like burgundy and navy blue.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

OK, in principle, it ought to be fairly simple to get MyCustomTailors.com to do a CMT smoking jacket.

All one would have to do would be to email them a jpg of a jacket and forward the material. (MyCustomTailor.com does not offer velvet as a material.)

So where do you get the material for a smoking jacket?

 

[edbrown]

I'm interested to know what patterns/samples you have used in your research prior to setting up the business of selling smoking jackets. They definitely do have that 'vintage' 30's look to them.

Well I had a meeting with the manufacturer the other day and we're looking at doing some other products as well as the Smoking Jackets.

I took the opportunity to ask him about the Smoking Jackets and what was his inspiration and he said he was inspired by the clothing worn by members of the Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band and the classic outfits worn by Noel Coward. After that he just looked around for Smoking Jackets in various old publications and drew his own patterns.

 

[Absinthe_1900]

I'm surprised no one brought up the perfect accessory to the smoking jacket, the smoking cap or hat.

 

[David V]

I don't post here often so please pardon me for interjecting these comments.
A smoking jacket should only be worn in one's own home. You never leave the house wearing one except to escort a guest to there waiting auto. A smoking jacket is not the same as a dressing gown. If you were to entertain guests at home and 'black tie' was indicated then you, as host, would be able to wear your smoking jacket as well as your velvet slippers with your formal shirt, tie and pants.

 

[3PieceSuitGuy]

Pakeman...

The Pakeman Catto and Carter smoking jacket is a thing of beauty! I would love to own one of those babies, now just to save the $1000 odd Australian Dollars. I would definately feel like a king dressed in that jacket. I don't smoke but would happily be around those who do dressed in it.

Mad Hatter you should let us know how you go with MyCustomTailors and if they can do a faithful reproduction of this beautiful jacket.

 

[Sardou]

Speaking of "At Home" Entertaining

A smoking jacket should only be worn in one's own home. You never leave the house wearing one except to escort a guest to there waiting auto. A smoking jacket is not the same as a dressing gown. If you were to entertain guests at home and 'black tie' was indicated then you, as host, would be able to wear your smoking jacket as well as your velvet slippers with your formal shirt, tie and pants.

That's my understanding as well. Wearing the velvet stuff (jacket, slippers) is solely the prerogative of the host, at least after the era of ALL the men changing into smoking jackets for an after-dinner cigar in the smoking/billiards room.

Digression: how did those jackets get there? Did the various valets bring them in through the back door and lay them out in the smoking room? Or was this entirely a country house party phenomenon, where all the guests were already in residence (with servants and multiple changes of clothes) -- whether for the weekend or even a couple of weeks? Certainly, it's hard to imagine such well-dressed guests showing up clutching garment bags.

I've also heard that in the case of an at-home black tie dinner, it is (acceptable) (preferable) (expected) that the men wear ordinary white shirts rather than starched/studded dress shirts. Comments? Reactions? Is this a place where city practice is different from suburban/country practice? I imagine that the pre-war / post-war divide also enters into this.

Sardou

 

[shindeco]

Generally speaking, pre-fifties ettiquette decreed that a stiff-fronted shirt with detachable collar was to be worn if there were women present. (This, by the way, is the only shirt acceptable with tails.)

A fold-over collar would be acceptable at an "informal" dinner at home (eg. just the family) or a casual dinner party (which still meant black tie) or at a casual, all-male function. Smoking jackets were defintely "at home" garments. You could also get away with one in tropical climes or when it was REALLY hot.

Regarding the luggage: the guest would certainly never have touched the luggage if there were servants. The porter at the train station would put them in the car (the host would send the car to the station , if you came by train) and the chauffeur would have taken them to the back entrance. The footmen would take them up to the room and unpacked them (assuming you weren't travelling with your own man). "Gosford Park" is an amazingly accurate depiction of the turmoil below stairs at a house party.

As to getting the smoking jacket in the smoking room: you would have gone up to your room or rung for someone to get it but I suspect you wouldn't take one unless you were staying for quite a while. Just get the servants to air out your clothes before the next evening.

 

[EL COLORADO]

I say if youre gonna light one up,...or enjoy a nice little sip,...then like CD said,...Its gotta be a nice satin 3/4 number with a tassled sash.
Or even better,..full length robe.

Relax.



EC

 

[Dinerman]

A "National" Any guesses as to how old?

And yes- it is held shut with a clothespin for the picture. The original tie is long gone, and I needed something to hold it shut for the picture.

 

[Edward]

My Grandfather, the little I did see of him, told me once how in Ireland smoking jackets were used. Often, they were a velvety-robe type jacket, though a sport coat style was not uncommon.

After dinner, the Men retired to a study of sorts for some Brandy and something to Smoke (Cigar, Pipe). He said the main purpose of the jacket was to keep some of the smoke smell out of dinner attire, and to prevent ashes from burning an expensive dinner suit.

Of course, there could and probobly are other reasons for the smoking jackets.

Regards,

Farn

P.S. Isn't Hugh Heffner always wearing PJ's and a velvet robe-style smoking jacket?

This is actually something i did a little reading into, as I've long wanted a smoking jacket. I've always been a little retro in my tastes - certainly i think the desire for a smoking jacket also has a crossover between an interest in vintage and an interest in a more gothic sensibility.

Smoking jackets (and smoking hats) were designed originally to be worn by the men in a dinner party after the meal, when the ladies had retired to the drawing room, and the men remained at the table to smoke. The theory was that the dedicated smoking jacket and the cap kept the smell of the smoke out of the hair / clothes so that one didn't reek of it on rejoining the ladies. (Clearly the ladies were too polite in those days to mention that this didn't do much to keep it off one's breath. ). Traditionally, I believe, they were a heavyweight velvet, though my understanding is that silk and other, lighter materials came in in warmer climates, where presumably any loss in protecting against penetration of the odour through the garment was considered to be a worthwhile sacrifice against greater comfort in the heat.

The most obvious distinction between a smoking jacket and a dressing gown is that the former is a blazer length, whereas the latter typically comes to below the knee. I've seen beautiful dressing gowns which are identical to a quality velvet smoking jacket, save in the length (good visual example: the one Gary Oldman wears in the early scenes as Dracula in Bram Stoker's Dracula). They are definitely dressing gowns and not smoking jackets. Smoking jackets can be tie-belted, or buttoned. Most commonly (though not always) the buttoned type are (I think the term is) frog buttoned, with a db-style overlap in the front panels of the jacket, rather than a traditional buttonhole as you'd see in a sports jacket. Typically the lining is quilted and extends out over the lapel (normally a shawl collar).

Very many of the jackets you will see selling on eBay as smoking jackets are simply velvet blazers mislabelled.

I don't post here often so please pardon me for interjecting these comments.
A smoking jacket should only be worn in one's own home. You never leave the house wearing one except to escort a guest to there waiting auto. A smoking jacket is not the same as a dressing gown. If you were to entertain guests at home and 'black tie' was indicated then you, as host, would be able to wear your smoking jacket as well as your velvet slippers with your formal shirt, tie and pants.

This is absolutely the case. My understanding is that over time, it came to be acceptable for the host not to wear a tux at all,but to remain in the smoking jacket all evening. (Otherwise, regular black tie code was observed.) They also came to be worn as an alternative to a longer dressing gown around the home while fully dressed. Technically, it's a bit of a faux pas to wear the out and about, though of course nobody these days is going to notice. The lines between a smoking jacket and a regular black tie dj have been blurred since the 70s with the introduction of the modern concept of the tuxedo, with various shades and colours - tartan, green, wine.... you name it. Often this sort of thing crops up on eBay marketed as a smoking jacket, though of course technically it isn't.

Guess what?
In most of Northern Europe, a Tuxedo is called "Smoking", yes, the English word.
So on an invitation, it might mention "Smoking" as the dress code.
This could easily cause confusion between Smoking jackets and Tux's.
Tank.

Yes, this is something i learned too from various black tie websites, and hunting eBay for a smoking jacket - it's bound to cause further confusion and blurring of the lines on what a samoking jacket is.

I'd love a traditional heavy velvet English smoking jacket for wearing at home in the winter, though at the price of a really good A2 Repro, it's not the highest thing on my list at present. Another alternative is the one produced by Magnoli:

For comparison, this is a dressing gown in a similar style to a smoking jacket.... but very definitely a dressing gown:

The dressing gown in the above photo was purchased from Canada via eBay; it's 1960s deadstock, but of course reflects the srtyle of the Golden Age much more closely as so many established classics do. Marks and spencer have a nice line in light cotton dressing gowns cut to the same design as this at present, though lacking the contrast trim. There's a lot to be said for machine washability in my book, though, for soemthing you're going to wear a lot!

 

[Orgetorix]

Edward, you must have a terrible time finding hats to fit.

 

[EvenOdd]

This thread up until now reminds me of:

 

[CharlestonBows]

Has anyone mentioned Jay Pratt?

I've got one from my own joint in blue velvet, and I have one in black velvet from Jay Pratts. Not terribly expensive, and not bad make, either.