Smoking in England banned from July 1st...

[scotrace]

There are "smoke-easies" that have sprung up in major American cities. Places where one must gain admittance at the door, and inside, the prohibition on smoking is disregarded.

At a family gathering the other day, we were discussing the expanding bans on smoking worldwide (all were non-smokers, all 40+). The politics of the whole business aside, it is unrealistic to expect an immediate adjustment to such an enormous (and rather unexpected) sea change. The generations of us who remember an ashtray on every restaurant table, standing ashtrays in department stores, and smoking stands (with cigarettes for guests - just like the liquor cabinet), were all common, will have to pass on before the total ban is really in full acceptance. I think the one thing we all found surprising was that the tobacco lobby wasn't strong enough to fight it all off.
So when a gentleman, like JohnTheGreek, has a cigar on the unoccupied patio, as he has probably done all his adult life, and some kid starts screeching about it like a little girl with a spider in her hair... well, his dismay is understandable.

 

[JohnTheGreek]

For example, my local brewpub voluntarily banned cigar and pipe smoking many years ago. There are prominent signs reminding customers of this reality.

I've seen this too....and respond by rolling pipe weed in zig-zag papers.....well, it's not pipe smoking is it?

Best Regards,

John

 

[JohnTheGreek]

So when a gentleman, like JohnTheGreek, has a cigar on the unoccupied patio, as he has probably done all his adult life, and some kid starts screeching about it like a little girl with a spider in her hair... well, his dismay is understandable.

Or worse yet, when other people's kids start screeching in a restaurant and one is forced to endure it ... because the annoying waiter who just told you to put out your smoke REFUSES to smack the little brat upside the head. Frankly, all I am demanding here is an equal right to be annoying in a public place.


Best,

John

 

[cookie]

There are "smoke-easies" that have sprung up in major American cities. Places where one must gain admittance at the door, and inside, the prohibition on smoking is disregarded.

At a family gathering the other day, we were discussing the expanding bans on smoking worldwide (all were non-smokers, all 40+). The politics of the whole business aside, it is unrealistic to expect an immediate adjustment to such an enormous (and rather unexpected) sea change. The generations of us who remember an ashtray on every restaurant table, standing ashtrays in department stores, and smoking stands (with cigarettes for guests - just like the liquor cabinet), were all common, will have to pass on before the total ban is really in full acceptance. I think the one thing we all found surprising was that the tobacco lobby wasn't strong enough to fight it all off.
So when a gentleman, like JohnTheGreek, has a cigar on the unoccupied patio, as he has probably done all his adult life, and some kid starts screeching about it like a little girl with a spider in her hair... well, his dismay is understandable.

I am an ex smoker so appreciate that. My son said to me (he just turned 18 and can legally drink) how nice the pubs are now that there is no smoking and everyone's clothes are not ruined.

 

[Sachet]

So when a gentleman, like JohnTheGreek, has a cigar on the unoccupied patio, as he has probably done all his adult life, and some kid starts screeching about it like a little girl with a spider in her hair... well, his dismay is understandable.

A "gentleman" wouldn't even had to have been asked to stop. Once possibly, for inadvertently misunderstanding. Twice. Purely bad manners.

I speak from the perspective of a mother of a teen trying to do his very best at his first job. New no smoking rule the restaurant established, and that he was required to convey to customers, was easily respected by most intelligent and well mannered customers. Occasionally, the rude arrogance of those who think themselves above common courtesy persists.
(eg. - the woman, who when my son politely explained the no smoking rule, proceeded to parade through the entire restaurant puffing away and blowing smoke at other diners.)

Gentleman: "In modern speech, the term is usually democratised so as to include any man of good, courteous conduct."

My son now has a finer appreciation for what this means.

...Sachet

 

[Viola]

So wait, for the crime of telling you that the restaurant doesn't allow smoking, the kid doesn't get any tip, not even 15% (I usually give 20%)?

If you had got up and walked out, I'd understand. But you sat there, had your leisurely meal, and the kid got stiffed for the management's rules?

-Viola

 

[Miss Neecerie]

I suspect this all boils down to


'disagree with the law or rule but choose to abide by it anyhow, in deference to the very idea that sometimes the greater good is represented by Laws' and rules'

or

'personally decide the validity of any and all laws, and disregard the ones I find stupid or unsensible'

I tend to find a 'when in Rome approch works....its illegal -here- so I wont go driving through red lights just because 'no one was coming the other way'

 

[Hondo]

In California any smoking out doors such as patio area needs to be 20 feet from entrance from said establishment.
All of you under 40, its sign of the times, I know we all don’t go out looking for an argument on a dinner or taking in a few drinks, But except it (arguments) to happen, even with no one around if you want to smoke, the place should have asked you to leave (then never do business with them in the future) or called the cops and they’ll give you a ticket, that’s it.
I recall it was enjoyable in my youth when I was a smoker of over 35 yrs (quit 7 years ago) Sad to say its just the sign of the times. I have to also add I can’t stand the smell of a cig/fag these days since I quit, it leaves me feeling sick, I just get up and leave.
Whats the big deal anyway? Its your health and life, die for all I care, but being well over 50 years old my out going days are rather tame now, stay at home type, what with all the drunk drivers (DUI’s) its no longer fun, rather visit friends (and if you smoke, go outside) to each his own, its just too crazy these days, that’s my two cents worth.

 

[Phil]

Or worse yet, when other people's kids start screeching in a restaurant and one is forced to endure it ... because the annoying waiter who just told you to put out your smoke REFUSES to smack the little brat upside the head. Frankly, all I am demanding here is an equal right to be annoying in a public place.


Best,

John

Now that's something I can agree with. At least smoke is quiet.

 

[Hondo]

Fun is fun, be adult, simple assault is still punishable under law,
were not in the old west, unless you want law-suit and jail time,
walk away.

Now that's something I can agree with. At least smoke is quiet.

Originally Posted by JohnTheGreek
Or worse yet, when other people's kids start screeching in a restaurant and one is forced to endure it ... because the annoying waiter who just told you to put out your smoke REFUSES to smack the little brat upside the head. Frankly, all I am demanding here is an equal right to be annoying in a public place.


Best,

John

 

[RedPop4]

John the Greek, you actually, EXPECT non-smokers to be tolerant and understanding? I've long since abandoned that notion. I mean read this thread it's full of elitism, snobbery and discrimination parading itself as "how it SHOULD be."

Elaina gave empirical and anecdotal evidence. Totally dismissed by the simpering "my clothes reek" so many non-smokers love to throw around as if smelling up clothing should be illegal.

They tried this stunt Down Under and I remember this happeneed in our Federal Parliament. One Minister used to like a cigar and stunk the joint out every afternoon. I have been a smoker at various times in my life but no more. Smoking is bad and shoud be totally discouraged from anywhere. Forget all this cigar and port crap - that's something we don't need.

Forget all this cigar and port crap--that's something YOU DON'T WANT, not something we don't need. That's disengenuous and condescending at best. Typical of the intolerance and bigotry of non-smokers, passed off under the socialist saw "for the greater good."

 

[Matt Noir]

This is one of those topics that is so polarizing it can and often does degenerate into what amounts to YELLING and bickering. I was hesitant to post my thoughts - but here goes nothing.

I am all for banning smoking in public places. Although I am not a drinker and as such I do not frequent pubs, I am an eater and I do like the company of good friends and good food. Many times I have been choked up by the smoke during a meal. I have never understood how people eating at a restaurant can take a puff - take a bite - take a puff - take a sip - take a bite - take a puff....

I am not judging anyone. I simply do not think being in an enclosed public space full of smoke is very healthy for me or anyone else. Quite frankly, I am being selfish - because I am not really concerned about everyone else.

The stinky clothes thing doesn't bother me - they get thrown in the wash when I get home. It's the hacking and wheezing, the burning eyes and stuffed nose that I get if I have been in a room of smoke too long.

Now this is where it gets interesting - I have recently taken to smoking a pipe. While I only do it once a week, and I do enjoy the experience (I like the whole experience - choosing the leaf, buying a pipe, packing the bowl, lighting the leaf - the smell of the aromatics), I would never smoke in my own home or anyone elses. I would never smoke in an enclosed public place even if it was allowed.

I would also never presume to knowingly and flagrantly break the rules or law just because I felt it was without merit or worth. There have been times when throwing the money changer's tables is needed - but I do not think this is a case that merits revolution. Just my two cents - which isn't worth much.

Respectfully,

Matt

 

[dundeedavie]

as some who lives in scotland and therefore have lived with the ban for over a year i'm all for it , now i don't drink (often or much )and i don't and have never smoked but being a dj i spend a lot of time in clubs which used to be very smokie clubs and now i can breathe


rules are rules and if you break them you pay the price (literally in the form of a fine )

 

[Miss Neecerie]

rules are rules and if you break them you pay the price (literally in the form of a fine )

Thank you. Most of the last page of argument, (note I say -most-) is about following and respecting the law of the land, wherever that land may be, and whatever the rule may be. Most of the issue is with 'flaunting' the law because one does not agree with it, rather then with -what- the law actually -is-.

I may like to speed, but get caught and there is a penalty. Same thing applies here, or with any other laws.

 

[LocktownDog]

I just heard a short clip on BBC about an assault connected with the UK smoking ban. I can't find the print article online, however.

Apparently someone at a bus stop kept asking an elderly gentleman to put out his cigarette. When he didn't, the younger man beat him pretty good and ran off. The others there didn't step in to help the old man. He was deaf and never heard anyone complaining about the smoke.

Things are going to get ugly.

Richard

 

[tinmanzzz]

Really ????????????????????????????????????

He should have thrown you out bodily. Or have the police remove you.



Gandhi said something very similar. Funnily enough, he was talking of something rather more important than the ability to smoke where he wished.

bk

What was Gandhi talking about if not basic Human rights??
Whether we live the USA or England, we are suppose to believe in freedom of choice and a free market place. If people want non-smoking, the market will provide them with smoke free places. It should provide them with places they can smoke.
As far as the employees go, do you have any coal mines in Wales??? We have them in Ky & Tn. Or Steel mills or a Million other jobs that include a hazard.
This is Goverment telling you how to live. What if the same Goverment Banned Hats ???
Also, Gandhi carried a copy of Henry David's "Civil Disobedience" at all times..

 

[dundeedavie]

What was Gandhi talking about if not basic Human rights??
Whether we live the USA or England, we are suppose to believe in freedom of choice and a free market place. If people want non-smoking, the market will provide them with smoke free places. It should provide them with places they can smoke.
As far as the employees go, do you have any coal mines in Wales??? We have them in Ky & Tn. Or Steel mills or a Million other jobs that include a hazard.
This is Goverment telling you how to live. What if the same Goverment Banned Hats ???
Also, Gandhi carried a copy of Henry David's "Civil Disobedience" at all times..

mr gandhi would also be fined


surely once something is deemed illegal by whatever government then market forces are irrelevent ? cocaine for example , was this not once legal ?

 

[jamespowers]

mr gandhi would also be fined

Not thrown out bodily as well?
I guess civil disobedience depends on whose ox is being gored.

Regards,

J

 

[dundeedavie]

Not thrown out bodily as well?
I guess civil disobedience depends on whose ox is being gored.

Regards,

J

that was almost orwellian

 

[tinmanzzz]

ILLEGAL ?????????????????

mr gandhi would also be fined


surely once something is deemed illegal by whatever government then market forces are irrelevent ? cocaine for example , was this not once legal ?

Actually, Tobacco is legal, Smoking is legal, What has become illegal is the property owner right to choose whether they want smoking or not. Now BIG BROTHER has made that decission for you. What decission will BB make for YOU next ?????????
Transfats???? Drinking ???? Sex ???? Number of Children ????? Religon ??????
Remember:
No animal shall sleep in a bed with sheets;
No animal shall drink alcohol in excess
No animal shall kill any other animal without cause.
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
It is happening.