Smoke-easies

[staggerwing]

Point number 2: I think this discussion has been an interesting case study of the issue of whether to allow political discussion in the FL. Tempers in these postings have gotten very near the boiling point, but not quite gone over. It's very hard not to get over emotional about these things. I'd like to get comments from the people who have posted in this discussion regarding how they feel about the way the conversation has been carried on. Civilized? Or over the edge?

I've seen "political" discussions get out of hand on other forums, and believe me, this is tame. I do agree with the ban on outright political discussions. I try to avoid them, but do realize that I've probably bumped up against the line here and there in my short association with this forum and the fine folks here. I like to think that people with our collective interests can carry on a civil conversation even when we disagree.

 

[Orgetorix]

I think a good case has been made scientifically that second hand smoke it harmful in the long term.

This has been discussed before (enough, according to the bartenders), so I won't say much. But I will say this: I don't think the scientific evidence shows any such thing. If you know what makes for a good scientific study, it's easy to see that most of the ones that are cited by the anti-smoking lobby on the effects of secondhand smoke are absolute rubbish.

 

[jake_fink]

Everybody here seems civil; the discussion is in no way out of hand.

In the past the discourse was reduced to slanging matches and insults which are not political, just childish.

 

[Elaina]

Goldleaf I once posted something to a similar effect, since I was a waitress and saw my money fly out the window and it was ignored.

Thing is, as long as this is a somewhat inflamatory issue (on either side) anything said to the contrary of the majority belief is considered suspect, and in turn, rejected out of hand.

 

[jamespowers]

Point number 2: I think this discussion has been an interesting case study of the issue of whether to allow political discussion in the FL. Tempers in these postings have gotten very near the boiling point, but not quite gone over. It's very hard not to get over emotional about these things. I'd like to get comments from the people who have posted in this discussion regarding how they feel about the way the conversation has been carried on. Civilized? Or over the edge?

I am watching and I don't see anything really over the edge or political. Seems more like a discussion about the news to me. Its about a stroy int he newspaper just as you would hear at the kitchen table around my house when I was young.
I'll still be watching though.

Regards,

J

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

I am watching and I don't see anything really over the edge or political. Seems more like a discussion about the news to me. Its about a stroy int he newspaper just as you would hear at the kitchen table around my house when I was young.
I'll still be watching though.

Regards,

J

Well I still say we should ban gasoline!

 

[RedPop4]

I and my smoker buddies discuss things like this all the time over cigars and fine libations, perhaps over a well-cooked meal, too. Heck, we did it this evening on my back deck, three guys drove in from Atlanta, one from St. Mary's Georgia, one from Boston Mass. and my buddy who still lives here in New Orleans. We respect each other, but we still raise our voices sometimes, or tease each other in the process as well. It certainly doesn't diminish our friendship.

 

[rikrdo]

Smokers are the Lepers of our generation.
We are easy targets for the masses and politicos alike.
I have my own feelings on the whole secondhand smoke conspiracy but, be that as it may....
It tis a slippery slope.
Smoking bans began in the workplace and in eateries. Fair enough. I dont want to force my smoke onto anyone and I really dont enjoy a meal under a haze.
HOWEVER.....
why take away the CHOICE to go to a bar and enjoy a beverage and a smoke ??
If a privately owned business wants to allow smoking, why should they NOT be allowed to do so ?
There are already smoking restrictions in effect in attached homes / apartments and I've recently seen where smoking in cars is the next area to be attacked.
I say:

SMOKE-easies good. Cause pretty soon you wont be able to smoke at home.

 

[Elaina]

I lived next door to a non-smoking apartment. Funnily enough, it never was full. My apartment didn't care, and there was a waiting list (roughtly the same in rent, and same kind of apartments.)

I feel that when a choice is denied, whatever it is, that something is wrong with it. Personally, I can't wait until McDonald's and that beer gets taxed.

 

[JB]

(i'm assuming that the isle of man is a part of the UK for the purposes of this law)

bk

Nope!! One of the "joys" of having our own givernement. I say that, as we're only truly seperate when it suits us... we usually fall in line with the UK sooner or later!

A lot of my earlier comments were based on a trial run one town had. One pub closed down, two others had to go back to allowing smoking to stay open. Sad but true...

I think that this whole discussion has been conducted well. In fact, it's another whole thread that I have enjoyed reading. Impressed that, whilst it's got heated, it's not boiled over excessively.

JB

 

[RedPop4]

I don't REALLY like conflict or arguing, so I aim to conduct myself well. I fail all too often.

Here's a site that has links to EPA studies and other studies about SHS.
http://www.davehitt.com/facts/index.html

You may not like his editorializing, but up the left hand navigation bar are the links to substantive information.

 

[RedPop4]

Smokers are the Lepers of our generation.
We are easy targets for the masses and politicos alike.
I have my own feelings on the whole secondhand smoke conspiracy but, be that as it may....
It tis a slippery slope.
Smoking bans began in the workplace and in eateries. Fair enough. I dont want to force my smoke onto anyone and I really dont enjoy a meal under a haze.
HOWEVER.....
why take away the CHOICE to go to a bar and enjoy a beverage and a smoke ??
If a privately owned business wants to allow smoking, why should they NOT be allowed to do so ?
There are already smoking restrictions in effect in attached homes / apartments and I've recently seen where smoking in cars is the next area to be attacked.
I say:

SMOKE-easies good. Cause pretty soon you wont be able to smoke at home.

The real irony of all this is that the bans in bars and restaurants are, ostensibly, to protect the employees, right? Well, there aren't many fields out there with a higher percentage of smokers than the food and beverage industry.lol lol lol lol

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Oh, come on now: "lepers of our generation". Please. That's just a little shrill, don't you think?

Every single group who are subject to any kind of control claim to be "the lepers of our generation".

Surely the lepers are the lepers of our generation?

Well, there aren't many fields out there with a higher percentage of smokers than the food and beverage industry.

Provide some stats with provenance or re-sheath the speculum, bitte.

bk

 

[RedPop4]

"Re-sheath the speculum?" I get the words, and likely the sentiment. Is that not a slur of some sort?
I've seen it referenced too many times over the last ten years to count. But like most things, I see it, I read it, and I move on.

I realize that won't be satisfactory for you, but I don't have all this on my fingertips, and I'm reading other things and sites just now. Sorry. If it harms my credibility with you, so be it.

If you click on the Ban Links button on that site I posted earlier, it also lists stories from news outlets about the effects the bans are having on the employees it's designed to protect. It's costing them their jobs in many cases. So they're healthy but unemployed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=446273&in_page_id=1770

Grandad builds his own 90-seat pub to beat the smoking ban

A grandfather was so outraged by a Wales-wide ban on smoking in public places he built his own private pub.

Property developer Kerry Morgan, 50, feared the simple pleasure of smoking and drinking a pint was about to disappear forever.

As a result he built an extension to his home, in Briton Ferry, Neath, south Wales, and transformed his garden into a substantial public house.

Look for Socialist Great Britain to make a law against this, next.

 

[Archie Goodwin]

Carnival Paradise

My wife took me on a cruise to celebrate after I got my first masters degree. We chose the (I believe) Carnival Paradise, because it was the first non-smoking cruise ship. That lasted about a year, because Carnival discovered that non-smokers drink and gamble less than smokers. It just wasn't profitable enough.

Louisiana recently began enforcing an interesting anti-smoking law, but it is one that I can live with (I smoke cigars). No smoking in any restaurant, nor in any bar connected to a restaurant. Bars that do not serve food can allow smoking. The most interesting piece of this legislation (for me), is that people are not allowed to smoke in cars if there are any children under the age of 18 in the car. I can remember going on road trips with my father and an endless stream of step-mothers, hanging my head out the window for a breath of clean air while they chain smoked for hours. I am 100% in favor of ticketing people who do this to children.

 

[missjo]

Brilliant idea.
I dont smoke (except to look cool on photos of course) but I hate the way suddenly everybody is fighting smokers.
I think its fine if smoking is banned everywhere, but it should be possible for a bar or restaurant to get a special permit that allows smoking.
It can be difficult and expensive to get such a permit, fine.
But when I set up a 1930s jazz cellar... I NEED it to be filled with smoke!
Thats what jazz cellars are like!
What next?
What if I make a movie that takes place in the 1930s... do i need to hire stuntmen and body doubles for the scenes were people smoke??
Do we need to rebuild our indoor set in a field somewhere so that our poor sweet innocent actors dont breath in any smoke?

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

What if I make a movie that takes place in the 1930s... do i need to hire stuntmen and body doubles for the scenes were people smoke??
Do we need to rebuild our indoor set in a field somewhere so that our poor sweet innocent actors dont breath in any smoke?

I don't smoke either, but I found these convincing prop cigarettes.
(One has to remember not to inhale :eusa_doh: )

 

[missjo]

A filter ciggy, how unusual! (in the 40's )
Must be one of those modern american things lol.

I dont mind smoking now and then, ive done much much more dangerous things then that!

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Oops!
Should have torn that filter off.
I used to smoke, and way too much,...so I can never smoke again without the risk of getting addicted. But I don't care if people are smoking around me, it doesn't much bother me.

 

[RedPop4]

Don't forget the new BBC Sherlock Holmes will be pipeless.

It's interesting that normally tax-happy politicians haven't compromised on this at ALL. There's a good bit of money to be made by local governments to compromise on smoking bans. Why, a "tobacco licensing fee" could be lucrative. But will the zealots even allow THAT? We can see on this thread that consensus and compromise is so very difficult.