Shocking Stories About Your Golden Era Relatives

[LizzieMaine]

At least she had the confidence to make her own way without that worthless SOB.

Alas, too many lack that confidence. Sadder still is that in many of those cases that lack of confidence is well placed.

If there's a lesson I learned from my childhood, my mother's experiences, and my great-grandmother's experiences, it's simple. Never be dependent on a man for anything. And the kind of man who insists on keeping his wife in a state of dependence is not to be trusted.

 

[jamespowers]

My grandfather threatened to kill my father if he ever laid a hand on my mother. And he wasn't kidding.

In Maryland, as late as 1940, wife beaters were sentenced to public whipping.

Works for me.

 

[Fading Fast]

As far as no-fault divorce goes, that was largely an innovation of the sixties and seventies, but even before the war many states granted divorces on the grounds of "mental cruelty," which was usually very broadly defined as "unhappiness." It wasn't hard to get a divorce in these situations, and divorces on the grounds of "physical cruelty" were granted even faster.

The "go to Reno" cliche came about because certain entrepreneurs around the turn of the century saw an angle to take advantage of the state's easy divorce laws and short residency requirement by building resorts where would-be divorcees could luxuriate in comfort while waiting for the paperwork to go thru. It was never something taken advantage of by the average working-class woman looking to get out of a bad marriage.

Many bad marriages in the Era ended in abandonment, not divorce. Even on a cruelty charge, it cost money to get a lawyer to handle matters, and many working-class women couldn't afford this. So they'd simply pack up the kids and disappear. Or, the husband would take care of the problem by disappearing himself. These sorts of failed marriages don't show up in the divorce statistics, but they were extremely common.

As always - thank you. And I'm sorry for you, your sister and your mother regarding her second husband (I know my feelings don't help you, but I do feel terrible that you went through that).

 

[LizzieMaine]

He got his.

 

[jamespowers]

And that's why as a kid of 12. I placed my gun to the s.o.b.'s forehead.
He never bothered us again. But that may have been the exception.

That was not the exception. There was plenty of this kind of thing settled "quietly." They didn't keep statistics of that either.

 

[2jakes]

That was not the exception. There was plenty of this kind of thing settled "quietly." They didn't keep statistics of that either.

That summer I was a skinny kid that was 6' tall
but my ma said I was her man !...

Just for the record: My ma & grandma were the only "women" that have
loved me without ever asking..." What's in it for me? "

 

[jamespowers]

That summer I was a skinny kid that was 6' tall
but my ma said I was her man !...

Just for the record: My ma & grandma were the only "women" that have
loved me without ever asking..." What's in it for me? "

Ouch! Yes the world is fairly mercenary out there.....:doh:

 

[ChiTownScion]

If there's a lesson I learned from my childhood, my mother's experiences, and my great-grandmother's experiences, it's simple. Never be dependent on a man for anything. And the kind of man who insists on keeping his wife in a state of dependence is not to be trusted.

When I was single and still in school, I took a lot of crap from my mother by insisting that any woman that I'd consider marrying would have to be educated and established in a profession. I told her that I'd never want a stay at home wifey who couldn't discuss anything more of substance than who was doing what to whom on a soap opera, and she accused me of wanting a woman to work so I wouldn't have to work. She was wrong, and I'm glad that after meeting my wife that she admitted that she was wrong. Independent and able women are more interesting and fun to be around, of course, but there is a practical side to all of it. I wanted my wife to be able to fend for herself should my own demise come earlier than anticipated. No man would ever want his widow or kids to face privation, I'd hope.

This is our 30th year of marriage, and <knock wood> we've both been able to work hard and do fairly well, never really wanting for the material essentials or see our kids have to do without necessities. We have never been wealthy, but we made an attempt to temper our dreams by remembering that we had to live within our means. Yes, I realize that has more to do with good fortune (dumb luck, maybe?) than merit. But we've both stuck to our work ethic, and always tried to never accumulate avoidable debt or squander money on things we cannot afford.

My father's second wife also once really angered me when I was single, telling me that, despite my standards for the woman I wanted to marry, telling me that I'd end up "marrying a dumb blonde waitress." Karma came to roost on that one. She had serious medical and financial complications at the end of her life, and my wife was the person she sought advice from. I didn't want to see the woman suffer at all like she did (chemo, etc.), but being able to help her out when she really needed the help was the best way, I think, for her to realize that her predictions were quite wrong. We helped her when she was down- it really was more fun than kicking her.

Sometimes "getting theirs" is just the realization by the person in question that they were wrong, and their having to admit it- by either word or deed.

 

[vitanola]

Many bad marriages in the Era ended in abandonment, not divorce. Even on a cruelty charge, it cost money to get a lawyer to handle matters, and many working-class women couldn't afford this. So they'd simply pack up the kids and disappear. Or, the husband would take care of the problem by disappearing himself. These sorts of failed marriages don't show up in the divorce statistics, but they were extremely common.

And so the term "Grass Widow", in reference to these ladies who either were abandoned or who threw the bums out. Was there a similar term for an abandoned husband?

 

[Fading Fast]

If there's a lesson I learned from my childhood, my mother's experiences, and my great-grandmother's experiences, it's simple. Never be dependent on a man for anything. And the kind of man who insists on keeping his wife in a state of dependence is not to be trusted.

I think this is excellent advice for women and men and I have alway lived my life that way - I pay my way and always plan to.

That said, I have seen many marriages - starting with my parents - where the couple decides to divide up responsibilities - my father worked hard and paid the bills, my mom ran the house and kids - and I can count on one hand and have a few fingers free the number of times they fought (and even those were not big blow ups). And while not wealthy, my Dad knew my Mom was at risk if he died prematurely, and, unbeknownst to my Mom and me, my Dad had bought enough life insurance so that when he did die prematurely, my Mom was financial okay.

He had denied himself and his family things (we lived a modest, modest lifestyle) so that he could buy this insurance for her.

My point is absolutely not to disagree as I think you view is the best view because it gives everyone the independence they need if things go wrong. But in the complex world of human beings, some - like my Mom - want to be housewives and some - like my Dad - are terrible at household things, but can earn a living.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I wasn't referring primarily to finances, although that's an important part of it, but to psychological dependence -- the idea that many women get that they simply can't function unless they have a man around. "OMG WHO WILL FIX THINGS THAT BREAK WHAT IF THERE'S A BURGLAR PEOPLE WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ME WHEN I TAKE THE CAR IN OMG OMG OM!G!!" That type of dependency is, make no mistake, just as common today as it ever was -- I've known many young women who've fallen victim to it, and ended up in bad marriages because they felt they had to have someone to protect them against the unpredictabilities of the world.

 

[LizzieMaine]

My father's second wife also once really angered me when I was single, telling me that, despite my standards for the woman I wanted to marry, telling me that I'd end up "marrying a dumb blonde waitress."

Most of the waitresses I've known have been extraordinarily smart. They might not be able to conjugate Latin verbs, but when it comes to the challenges of daily life, they know the score better than just about anyone.

 

[Fading Fast]

I wasn't referring primarily to finances, although that's an important part of it, but to psychological dependence -- the idea that many women get that they simply can't function unless they have a man around. "OMG WHO WILL FIX THINGS THAT BREAK WHAT IF THERE'S A BURGLAR PEOPLE WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ME WHEN I TAKE THE CAR IN OMG OMG OM!G!!" That type of dependency is, make no mistake, just as common today as it ever was -- I've known many young women who've fallen victim to it, and ended up in bad marriages because they felt they had to have someone to protect them against the unpredictabilities of the world.

The funny thing is I agree with everything you are saying. I believe it is alway better for a person to be independent, knowledgable in many things, able to deal with the "stuff" of everyday by themselves, etc. If I had children, I would raise them that way. So, you and I are of the same view.

The only point I was making was that, despite feeling the way I do about independence, I have seen many marriages work were the man or women or both absolutely needed the other person to make their life work and they were open about it. I view this as a risky way to approach life, as you have great downside exposure, so it's not for me, but it does work for many.

While we tend to think of it as as you noted - as a woman needing a man - a good childhood friend of mine could not function from college on without a girlfriend and got married very shortly after college. He is a successful father and dad today, has a good career and is a great guy, but his life would fall apart if something happened to his wife. Again, not my choice, and I'd advice against it, but human nature isn't going to change - some people either want to or need to be dependent on others.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

While we tend to think of it as as you noted - as a woman needing a man - a good childhood friend of mine could not function from college on without a girlfriend and got married very shortly after college. He is a successful father and dad today, has a good career and is a great guy, but his life would fall apart if something happened to his wife. Again, not my choice, and I'd advice against it, but human nature isn't going to change - some people either want to or need to be dependent on others.

It seems as if men are more dependent, emotionally and psychologically, on their wives than the other way round because I myself know of too many instances where when the wife passed away first the husband followed shortly after, regardless of age or health. My own parents died within ten months of each other. When my Mom passed away I had the unsettling feeling that my Dad would not be around that much longer at that point. In fact I would have been surprised if he made it past the one year anniversary of her death but, alas, he didn't.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Nothing quite like plausible (if not quite believable) deniability. I gotta wonder how many of the more poetic expressions flew over how many millions of heads like so many geese headed south. Gotta wonder also how many parents let their kids sing along to such popular tunes in the full knowledge that the youngsters had no idea how those lyrics might otherwise be interpreted.

"Sugar" got lots of play (as in "needin' a little sugar in that bowl"), and it does still, for those with an ear for such things.

There's a tendency among a lot of latter-day music writers to attribute that sort of eye-winking lewdness to "black music," but in fact even the most cottony-white of mainstream pop music of the Era was full of this sort of thing if you pay close attention to it. When you hear a lyric like "I'm his Eskimo Pie and he's my ice cream cone! Yum-yum-yummy-yum!" you don't have to be Sigmund Freud to figure out what's really going on.

 

[Stanley Doble]

My father was one of 10 siblings and sooner or later, pretty much all the men had to skip town or do time. His brother Jack joined the Army in 1946 to get out of a careless driving rap and made a career out of it, ending up a Master Sargeant. His was a success story. He still can't get a driving license in Ontario.

My mother's family was old Ontario stock, salt of the earth, temperance, church goers etc. But she had a couple of aunts about which, the less said the better.

Every family has them.

 

[Shangas]

Many bad marriages in the Era ended in abandonment, not divorce. Even on a cruelty charge, it cost money to get a lawyer to handle matters, and many working-class women couldn't afford this. So they'd simply pack up the kids and disappear. Or, the husband would take care of the problem by disappearing himself. These sorts of failed marriages don't show up in the divorce statistics, but they were extremely common.

Is this where all those stories about "Daddy went out for a box of matches and never came back" originate?

 

[sheeplady]

It seems as if men are more dependent, emotionally and psychologically, on their wives than the other way round because I myself know of too many instances where when the wife passed away first the husband followed shortly after, regardless of age or health. My own parents died within ten months of each other. When my Mom passed away I had the unsettling feeling that my Dad would not be around that much longer at that point. In fact I would have been surprised if he made it past the one year anniversary of her death but, alas, he didn't.

There's a lot of research on the effects of marriage on men and women. For women nowadays, it ranges from a slight loss to a slight gain on matters of financial, health, and happiness well being depending on the study. Married men, on the other hand, report much higher levels of happiness than unmarried men. But the most astounding thing is health- married men are dramatically healthier than unmarried men. Why this is they don't quite know- but there is less serious heart disease in married men than in bachelors- regardless of the reported happiness of the marriage. No one knows why.

 

[Fading Fast]

There's a lot of research on the effects of marriage on men and women. For women nowadays, it ranges from a slight loss to a slight gain on matters of financial, health, and happiness well being depending on the study. Married men, on the other hand, report much higher levels of happiness than unmarried men. But the most astounding thing is health- married men are dramatically healthier than unmarried men. Why this is they don't quite know- but there is less serious heart disease in married men than in bachelors- regardless of the reported happiness of the marriage. No one knows why.

My completely anecdotal observation is that women eat healthier than men (in general, there are always exceptions) and women encourage their spouses to eat healthier.

I know several men who existed on beer, pizza, burger and fries until they got married and, then - owing to their wive's influence - started eating much better. I do not know examples - again, from an unscientific sample based on my small circle of friends - where the man in the relationship improved the woman's diet after they met.

Many of my single women friends are very health conscious about their food; most of my single male friends are not.

Again - all anecdotal - but it would be interesting to see if other's have similar or different observations.

 

[Zombie_61]

My completely anecdotal observation is that women eat healthier than men (in general, there are always exceptions) and women encourage their spouses to eat healthier.

I know several men who existed on beer, pizza, burger and fries until they got married and, then - owing to their wive's influence - started eating much better. I do not know examples - again, from an unscientific sample based on my small circle of friends - where the man in the relationship improved the woman's diet after they met.

Many of my single women friends are very health conscious about their food; most of my single male friends are not.

Again - all anecdotal - but it would be interesting to see if other's have similar or different observations.

I have to concur with your observations, though in my experience women tend to eat healthier foods in an attempt to maintain their figures more so than their health.