Shirt collar oddities - Boardwalk Empire Shirt Collars

[Fastuni]

again, the logic defeats me. people see your cool horizontal-striped shirt ... but does that mean you can't take your jacket off in case they see it's not striped all over ?

Well, according to notions of "proper attire" one wasn't supposed to take off the jacket in public in the first place - so no one would notice.

Then again the usual costumers of such shirts - workers and farmers - certainly were indifferent about such "rules of dress" - so no one would have really cared anyway.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

In the artist rebel dandy book there is an article about Richard Merkin who had shirts with bibs made for him. Usually not two colors but just different directions of the stripes. I don't know why. Perhaps it's all just the whim of a dandy. Or maybe we have to look much earlier than 20s and this was just an old style how shirts were made?

 

[Two Types]

the logic defeats me. people see your cool horizontal-striped shirt (which would have been worn with separate white collar, in keeping with the collar stand)... but does that mean you can't take your jacket off in case they see it's not striped all over ?

I wonder if there might have been an element of taking off the jacket and saying 'Look at me!'. You see it on modern shirts for evening wear: white bib front with bright red body and arms etc. Maybe it was that same logic 'you think I'm respectable but, take off my jacket, and I'm wild'. Or maybe it was simply that the modern version is based on the old improvised, make-do-and-mend type approach, but misunderstand.
I don't know the answer, but I like bib fronts. (Luxire, here we come!)

 

[esteban68]

I'd go with the latter TT at least to start with!

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Text says" Detail of group of shirts worn by FrancisJ. Carolan, ca. 1900. T. Hodgkinson, shirtmaker, London. Monogrammed cotton plain weave, cotton novelty weave, and silknovelty weave. Anonymous gift. Museum of Art Rhode Island School of Design, Providence."

It makes a lot more sense with pleated bibs. Note the matching colors but the idea that this area can be different from the shirt body is basically the same. I imagine the shirts shown by hbk are a leftover from the turn of the century style and only adapted to (then) modern collar shapes and fabrics maybe for conservative or eccentric gentlemen?

 

[Luftwaffles]

Not gonna lie; I would gladly wear all of those.

 

[herringbonekid]

here's a 1910 ad for a dress shirt with a stiff 'bosom':

it seems Fatsuni is correct that the different body fabric was primarily to do with the economics of using a cheaper, hard-wearing fabric.

from "The Whole Art of Dress: published in 1830:

"As the wristbands, collars, and fronts are the only parts displayed in public, it is by no means absolutely requisite . . . to have the body and sleeves composed of linen. On the contrary, fine India long cloth [plain cotton cloth], while it saves an immense expense (one-third the price of linen), is infinitely superior from the coolness and comfort of its wear."

lots of info on this topic here:

http://www.blacktieguide.com/Vintage/Vintage_Shirts.htm

... of course this is referring to evening shirts rather than shirts worn by working men, but the logic appears to be the same.

it seems though, that striped shirts were easily affordable by the 20s and 30s, so the shirt i posted on the previous page (with the striped bib) still seems a bit of a puzzle.

 

[Fastuni]

When I have the chance (not right now) I will post some scans from a 1939 German wholesale-dealer catalogue advertising striped-bib shirts.

They were still produced and commonly worn in the late-30's by the working class. The catalogue allows us also to compare the prices with fully-striped work-shirts or normal dress shirts.

 

[JonnyO]

Hey all, it has been awhile since I have posted here, but I have a request. I am in search of a vintage collar ad that I found awhile back, but never saved and now I can't seem to locate it. I believe it was a postcard or just an ad, it had a black background and the letters on the ad were made of collars. I want to say it was an Arrow ad, but I'm not 100% sure. Thank you all in advance!

 

[Trapped in T-wilight Zone]

Reading the past page and a half and all the discussion of shirts with nicer materials or fancy stitching to show around the vest. However using plain and/or more durable and cheaper materials for most of the shirt, reminds me of something.
W C Fields, in one of his movies (probably more than one) looked so fine in his long coat, cuffs showing nicely, excellent collar, nice fancy shirt front. A few moments later, in the back room out of sight of the sheep he was trying to shear, he removes his coat. He has on a dicky front held onto him by the collar around his neck. There are strings running down his arms holding celluloid cuffs at about his wrists. No shirt.
I know that it was part of his schtick, and it has been forty years since I have seen it. But I can remember it like it was yesterday and it made me laugh!

Minor thread drift alert! If you have seen W C Fields juggling in any of his talkies? To quote Al Jolson, "You ain't seen nothin' yet!" The best juggling I have ever seen W C Fields do was in the silent classic 'Sally of the Sawdust' from 1926 if I recall correctly. You need to pay attention to the bouncing ball.

Now, Back to these interesting shirts. If I can find them (out in storage), and figure out how to post pictures here, I need to do that. I have four or five that I have had for about forty years, and they were antiques when I got them.
W2

 

[Dostioffsky]

Link buttons, silk corduroy, knit silk, buttons on the band and one of those tab-collar-likes.

The Tooke Hook:

One thing I was wondering about striped collars. It seems to be that they are being sold separately, so were they then combined with solid shirts?

Also, from 1915, coloured shirt collars were not a succes:

 

[herringbonekid]

It seems to be that they are being sold separately, so were they then combined with solid shirts?

usually separate striped collars would match the shirt of the same striped fabric.

 

[Dostioffsky]

That's what I would think as well, but then there's also ads like the one below about all kinds of stripes and colours that are available.

Edit: Collars, ties and handkerchiefs to match.

 

[herringbonekid]

yes, those ads are curious. i've seen no illustrations or photographic evidence of striped collars worn with plain shirts, but knowing how whacky that period was i wouldn't be surprised if it happened !

 

[Dostioffsky]

Well, if, apparently, they tried to sell coloured collars they might as well have sold striped ones! Though I haven't seen any pictures of them either..

 

[Dostioffsky]

Full article: https://archive.org/stream/menswearofcan1914toro#page/446/mode/1up

It mentions 'collars in the same fabric as the shirt' but also 'patterns similar to the shirts'.

https://archive.org/stream/menswearofcan1914toro#page/508/mode/1up Aha! 'Of course the neat black stripe will be the most popular as it can be worn with any color of shirt'

 

[Fading Fast]

Considering the Hipsters' obsession (obsequience) to things old and traditional, it is surprising that more of these collars haven't made a comeback. It seems to fit the Hipster's aesthetic - a small detail, with a long tradition that they could study and revive. I could care less one way or another about the Hipster's, but it would be good if their silliness brought back some of these collars.

 

[scotrace]

This shirt has recently come my way. It's completely ruined by being stored on a cellar floor, but I'm going to document it and save it anyway. The pattern is interesting. A bib front, and the buttons are mother of pearl as place holders for studs. They're held on by little cotter pins. It opens in the back (here tied with thread to keep it together) like a formal shirt. It has detachable cuffs, the first I've seen in person. All in all pretty fascinating, and I'm glad to have it, ruined or not. I snapped these AFTER cleaning. It's really a mess.
The three-piece suit that came with it is NOT ruined and is equally interesting, with a swallow tail coat, buckle back pants, etc. They match so well I have to think the shirt and suit were worn together.

The suit vest, for interest. This will be sold off:

 

[Papperskatt]

This shirt has recently come my way. [...] It has detachable cuffs, the first I've seen in person. [...]
The three-piece suit that came with it is NOT ruined and is equally interesting,

[...]

The suit vest [...]. This will be sold off:

Cool find. I've never seen a detachable cuff shirt in person either.

That vest look very interesting. Could you upload pictures of the other pieces of the suit? I might be interested in buying it if it's my size; ~36" chest.

 

[Two Types]

The waistcoat looks fantastic