Shirt collar oddities - Boardwalk Empire Shirt Collars

[Flat Foot Floey]

Links don't work for me. Maybe because I am fropm europe and some Google books are restricted to a country. If it is possible to make a screenshot of the collars and post is as an image please?

 

[JonnyO]

I apologize for that FFF, hope these work for you.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

No need. Thank you very much. Very interesting collars indeed.

 

[herringbonekid]

i'll never understand what they were trying to achieve with the mid teens trend for stiff collars with no tie gap:

it looks like the poor tie knot is trapped behind some stuck elevator doors waiting for them to open.

not to mention how uncomfortable that stiff collar looks.

 

[herringbonekid]

there's lots of no-tie-gap shirts in the early 20s catalogues too, though by now they're softer than the above. dressy:

and more casual / work:

 

[scotrace]

i'll never understand what they were trying to achieve with the mid teens trend for stiff collars with no tie gap:

it looks like the poor tie knot is trapped behind some stuck elevator doors waiting for them to open.

not to mention how uncomfortable that stiff collar looks.

I sure like it though.

 

[Luftwaffles]

i'll never understand what they were trying to achieve with the mid teens trend for stiff collars with no tie gap:

it looks like the poor tie knot is trapped behind some stuck elevator doors waiting for them to open.

not to mention how uncomfortable that stiff collar looks.

I've actually worn a few of those collars before. They were the older styled paper collars, but once you get used to it, it's actually not that bad.

 

[herringbonekid]

I sure like it though.

They were the older styled paper collars, but once you get used to it, it's actually not that bad.

to me it looks like they haven't quite decided where the tie knot should be; in front ? behind ? stuck between the collar edges ?

 

[Papperskatt]

Stiff collars aren't that uncomfortable, but it is however very hard to tie the tie as the collar already must be folded. That's one of the main reasons why I mostly stick to soft collars nowadays.

I'm not a big fan of the no gap-collars but if I were to wear one I'd put the knot on the outside

 

[Trapped in T-wilight Zone]

i'll never understand what they were trying to achieve with the mid teens trend for stiff collars with no tie gap:

I don't know. But my favorite collar was the Arrow 'Devon' which was very similar to the one in the picture posted above by herringbonekid. I believe the one pictured is just a bit taller than the Devon. I have had some Arrow collars a bit taller than the Devon, but do not recall what they were called. Somewhere, amongst all that stuff stored out there, is a large box full of original collars and boxes. I need to find them, and then I need to figure out how to post pictures on this site. (Done it elsewhere, just need to try it here)
W2

 

[Dostioffsky]

This one is designed to curve around the tie-knot:

 

[herringbonekid]

next shirt question: what is the point of this contrasting bib ?

you're wearing a jacket and it looks like you've got a striped shirt on underneath.
you take the jacket off and lo, it's actually a cream shirt with a striped bib and cuffs.

why ?

 

[Fastuni]

Economics. Striped shirting fabric was more expensive.
Having only the visible parts (collar, chest, cuffs) in fancy fabric is cheaper than making an entire shirt of it.
Also the white fabric for the bulk of the shirt was usually of a very sturdy sort allowing for hard wear.
There even were jersey-fabric undershirts with such striped bibs and collars.

Such shirts were very common in Germany among workers/farmers until the early 50's.
Another aspect that was important during wartime and postwar was the re-use of old/torn fancy shirts or leftover fabric on hardwearing white cotton shirts.

 

[herringbonekid]

Fastuni, that makes sense, but what's odd about the shirt above is that the cream fabric is fancy. it doesn't look like a basic white cotton.

 

[Fastuni]

From the photos the cream-white fabric looks sturdy though... there were also such fabrics with patterns.
Alternative explanation would be that the blue-striped parts were added later. But it looks too well done.

 

[Papperskatt]

I imagine that one probably wore a waistcoat with those contrasting bib shirts.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Two damaged shirts made into one? But I agree with Fastuni. It looks to clean and purposeful to be a patch job.
Great collar shape btw. Doesn't even need to be longer.

 

[herringbonekid]

I imagine that one probably wore a waistcoat with those contrasting bib shirts.

almost certainly. but is the wearer reluctant to take their jacket off in case everyone sees that their shirt is made of - gasp ! - two different fabrics ?

here's an Arrow shirt with contrast bib:

again, the logic defeats me. people see your cool horizontal-striped shirt (which would have been worn with separate white collar, in keeping with the collar stand)... but does that mean you can't take your jacket off in case they see it's not striped all over ?

 

[herringbonekid]

Two damaged shirts made into one?

my feeling is that this particular shirt is exactly that. i can't imagine that shirt being mass produced with such a fancy off-white fabric.

 

[mactire]

almost certainly. but is the wearer reluctant to take their jacket off in case everyone sees that their shirt is made of - gasp ! - two different fabrics ?

here's an Arrow shirt with contrast bib:

again, the logic defeats me. people see your cool horizontal-striped shirt (which would have been worn with separate white collar, in keeping with the collar stand)... but does that mean you can't take your jacket off in case they see it's not striped all over ?

We haven't the cultural memory of how expensive manufactured goods were compared to wages, and this included wovens. Even these days a colour woven cloth will be dearer from a mill than a plain or piece-dyed cloth. There were lots of tricks around this, denim for instance where the weave construction allows it to appear blue when it is a blue warp over undyed cotton weft.

In my grandfathers time it was common for policemen like him to have to buy their uniform when it was old off their employer and then have it turned, so taken completely apart and the inside face of the cloth turned outwards. This sounds insane in terms of the labour involved but a heavy handwoven tweed in the mid-1950s might have cost you 5 guineas a yard, or over a weeks pay for labourer and you need 3 yards for a two-piece suit.