Shipping Back to Aero from the U.S.

[Fanch]

After all has been said and done, I think that Holly's position has been made clear: that she had previously e-mailed Frank that Aero would reimburse his shipping but that Aero could not send out any replacement jackets prior to receiving the original jackets. Personally, I agree with Aero's decision in that regard and would not have expected otherwise had I been one of the unfortunate ones stuck with a defective jacket but now having that issue resolved. We all need to keep in mind that Aero is a small family run business trying to pull out all of the stops to survive the situation in which they find themselves. They are to be commended for their transparency and choosing not to cover up events.

Based on my visit to Insurrection about six months ago, I found them to be an independent business of modest size. Insurrection well might not wish to be involved in the transfer of jackets back and forth, nor have the manpower or resources to do so, particularly when they weren't involved in the original transactions.

 

[gtdean48]

Given that what we are doing is the socratic method & since I have been working in a healthcare related field for over 30 years, I know a bit about the hippocratic oath. Both of those dudes were Greek, right? (Rhetorical question)
I enjoy lively banter in both physical & virtual lounges. Do you really think I believe I will have any impact in either one other than having a lively discussion? (Rhetorical question)
Since you stated "this is a small company dealing with a high number of customers in this situation", "So you know the exact number of customers in the situation" is not a rhetorical question.
Since you stated "Aero's situation is uniquely difficult", "how is this uniquely difficult" is not a rhetorical question.
Since you stated "they're trying to their best", "how can you qualify that as their best" is not a rhetorical question.
I'll give you that "In all the businesses out there, no other has had product shipped claimed to be of 1 material but actually another" is a sarcastic question.
Emphatic statements should expect to be challenged, unless this Lounge is different than all the lounges I have frequented...

Rhetorical questions are an invention of the Greek philosopher Aristotle you know... . That aside, all I am suggesting is that in any situation where there is some sort of specific problem, direct communication between concerned parties is a more positive line of action for both parties, rather than garnering a variety of opinions - no matter how well meant - which may have some or no standing on either side of the pond.
Nothing wrong with discussing it, I'm just not sure how it contributes to the situation as is . For what it's worth, I agree with wdw: working through Insurrection would seem an effective way of creating a US point of contact that would ease any bottle-neck in communication and reduce costs, and create goodwill generally. But it's not for us to make that decision, though I do hope wdw does get a bump up the ladder if it happens

 

[Boyo]

Reading through this it's clear as day that gtdean48 and his allies in this argument are talking sense. Evidently these are savvy consumers and I think some of the arguments presented are impenetrable.

And yet I can totally understand why the Scottish defence team feel compelled to leap into action.

What needs to be remembered here is that Aero are a tiny tiny company. They don't have a PR or marketing team. It's basically just a very small group who can make you a great jacket. Therefore in a marketing sense it's possible (perhpas inevitable) that small mistakes from time to time will get made. Take the website as a case in point. It's hardly a work of art is it, but it's functional. It's also possible that when Holly answers her 200th email of the day at say 10pm there might be the odd unfortunate wording. Newsflash: The woman is human!

What it all boils down to is do you trust Holly and Ken et al to do the right thing. Anyone who's dealt with them, myself included, says yes. In my opinion anyone who doesn't is either a) trying to cause trouble or b) hasn't yet deal with them direct

So I guess what I'm trying to say is these are good people and this is a good company. that has integrity. Granted the door is ajar at the moment but you guys don't need to run in and bash them with your marketing/PR sticks just because it is. After all, there is no doubt that in time you'll all get sorted out and nobody will be left screwed over

All the best
Schitz

Schitzo...

as always, Very Well Said!

 

[frussell]

After all has been said and done, I think that Holly's position has been made clear: that she had previously e-mailed Frank that Aero would reimburse his shipping but that Aero could not send out any replacement jackets prior to receiving the original jackets. .

Sorry Fanch, but no, that's incorrect. Holly had not previously emailed me anything about reimbursement. Only a request yesterday to send my steer jacket back, and some packing requests. Her reply today, the day after I paid to send it back, was in response to an entirely different email requesting any MORE costs I might encounter on the new one's arrival (VAT, shipping tariffs?), which was not addressed. At no time until after possibly reading this thread did anyone from Aero offer to pay for my shipping, nor was any condition made regarding the return of my steer jacket in connection with shipping. I never, ever expected Aero to let me wait until the new one got here to make me send the old one back. As my friend Mr. Dean has written, it's great when that happens, and usually makes me a customer for life, but I in no way expected it from Aero in this instance, especially considering the pain in the behind this whole situation has been, from my original order to now. I hope very much that Aero will get the replacement jacket right, that it will be what I ordered, and that it will come with no charges due. I will gladly sing their praises like most others here. So far, in reality, my experience has been negative, and continues to be so. I hope for the best result, but like they say, wish in one hand.............. Frank

 

[Sloan1874]

To use an old Scots term, it sounds as if things have got in a right fankle, and at several thousand miles distance it must be extremely frustrating. But we look forward to seeing the results posted on the board when your jacket arrives, Frank. I'm sure it'll look great.

 

[Fanch]

Frank, I hope when you receive your new jacket that it works out for you. Please post with lots of pictures when it arrives.

 

[IXL]

Rhetorical questions are an invention of the Greek philosopher Aristotle you know... . That aside, all I am suggesting is that in any situation where there is some sort of specific problem, direct communication between concerned parties is a more positive line of action for both parties, rather than garnering a variety of opinions - no matter how well meant - which may have some or no standing on either side of the pond.
Nothing wrong with discussing it, I'm just not sure how it contributes to the situation as is . For what it's worth, I agree with wdw: working through Insurrection would seem an effective way of creating a US point of contact that would ease any bottle-neck in communication and reduce costs, and create goodwill generally. But it's not for us to make that decision, though I do hope wdw does get a bump up the ladder if it happens

Aristotle stole the concept of rhetorical questions from the Estruscans....

 

[IXL]

Fox Creek Leather commonly does the same thing if there are fit issues. Just good customer relations.

I had forgotten about Fox Creek. They have been kind enough to send me two jackets to try, billing me only for one, with my promise to send the one I didn't want back.

 

[Foster]

It's an unenviable situation for both parties involved, but I do believe that the Aero team are listening, and trying to manage solutions that benefit the customer without costing them too dearly. Distance and duties make it less straightforward to send items back and forth. I don't think either party particularly enjoys it, but such situation is beyond control of either. Aero did make a tough decision to endeavor to right past wrongs, when they could have chosen to merely close shop and fade into history. I think at times that possibility needs to be remembered. Both parties are frustrated by this, and replacing a custom jacket is not the same scenario as getting another steak when the one you ordered wasn't cooked right. The buyer chooses to wait for the fix or he doesn't. In similar fashion, Aero decides if they want to keep making jackets and if the financial benefit is worth the cost of the stress of making the jackets and meeting customer expectations. If either party decides not to cooperate in a solution, then there's the impasse.

 

[kyboots]

This thread and the current issue in Europe where horse meat has got into ground beef in ready meals is a little ironic. Doubly so when some of it appears to be American horses shipped to Canada and Mexico for slaughter. Upwards of 100,000 animals a year... and yet horsehide is still rare...

That is so very true as you cannot take horses to slaughter for hides or dog food anymore in the US. Always good intentions, BUT it is better to send OLD animals as most of these are to Canada rather then see them starve to death by poor owners, elderly and deceased owners or cruel ones. So not only was it horse meat, it was OLD horse meat! ( I know off topic but poignant ).

 

[cloudylemonade]

To be honest I'm quite baffled at this entire thread. I don't remember every being asked by you about return shipping costs Frank, but as someone else has pointed out I have an INSANE amount of emails to get through, no matter how many hours a day I work I am constantly 2 days behind them, so my apologies if I've missed something when trying to reply to as many as possible. As I've explained now we will cover all your costs involved so I don't see how you are a penny out of pocket. Please email me with the amount you have paid for postage and your payment details and we'll reimburse this amount. I'm sorry if my mail was misconstrued, it was simply a note to tell you we will reimburse your costs.

Of course we cannot send out a replacement jacket without seeing the original. I'm quite sure Franks is steerhide, but in a situation like this we are open to opportunists. Who's to say someone doesn't send us a photo of any steerhide jacket, claiming it's theirs, just to get a free jacket out of it and never send the supposed steerhide jacket back? This obviously is a long shot, but as we are just a small family business it's a chance we can't take. If Insurrection (I think it was Insurrection that were mentioned) are willing to send out jackets ahead of returns coming in that's great, but I know of very very few businesses that can afford to be so trusting.

We've been burned before, albeit by long standing employees we had no reason not to trust (clearly we all make mistakes - we were wrong in trusting them), and we're not going to be in a position for this to happen again.

 

[Capesofwrath]

As I understand the history of all this Frank was never an Aero customer to begin with. So there was no relationship. He was a customer of Aero USA, and MM was less than careful with measurements and communication, among other things, with his supplier Aero Scotland it has since transpired.

So as Aero did not actually know this customer from a bar of soap and had never had a relationship with him it would be a little unreasonable to expect them to send him a new jacket without a return first. It isn't the same as other examples posted here where the customer bought from the manufacturer, because Frank did not buy from Aero Leather and was not their customer. He bought from a dealer who then bought the jacket from Aero.

 

[majormajor]

The simple fact is that one or two "devil's advocates" on here have done their best to turn a simple issue into a bigger one. This issue WILL be resolved, I am sure.

The pontifications from others who were not involved, but "know better" have done nothing to speed the process. All they have done is muddy the waters.

Why don't we just let Frank and Holly sort it out?

 

[gtdean48]

The simple fact is that one or two "devil's advocates" on here have done their best to turn a simple issue into a bigger one. This issue WILL be resolved, I am sure.

The pontifications from others who were not involved, but "know better" have done nothing to speed the process. All they have done is muddy the waters.

Why don't we just let Frank and Holly sort it out?

What "waters" are you talking of being muddied?
Frank started this thread to ask about shipping costs back to Scotland & upon explaining why he was asking got opinions & experiences about item returns & replacement as normal in a thread in a virtual Lounge.
Holly, being a vendor & the one involved, explained her side in the thread in an OPEN FORUM.
You are the second person to try to tell folks what & how to discuss or not to discuss experiences, opinions, perceptions, & I don't see a Bartender label by your name either.
I understand loyalty to a cherished vendor but not this desire to control thought, discussion & debate.
The fact that Frank initiated the thread & Holly participated is evident they are willing for transparency & open dialog here.
I haven't seen one posting by a moderator that this thread is anything but a discussion of opinions & thoughts on interesting topics related to initial posting.

 

[majormajor]

What "waters" are you talking of being muddied?
Frank started this thread to ask about shipping costs back to Scotland & upon explaining why he was asking got opinions & experiences about item returns & replacement as normal in a thread in a virtual Lounge.
Holly, being a vendor & the one involved, explained her side in the thread in an OPEN FORUM.
You are the second person to try to tell folks what & how to discuss or not to discuss experiences, opinions, perceptions, & I don't see a Bartender label by your name either.
I understand loyalty to a cherished vendor but not this desire to control thought, discussion & debate.
The fact that Frank initiated the thread & Holly participated is evident they are willing for transparency & open dialog here.
I haven't seen one posting by a moderator that this thread is anything but a discussion of opinions & thoughts on interesting topics related to initial posting.

See what I mean.

On & on & on & on & on:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

 

[gtdean48]

See what I mean.

On & on & on & on & on:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

True to form = no substance again & again & again & again....

 

[schitzo]

See what I mean.

Nope, I don't

Perhaps if you would just throw in a few more emoticons.. O and some capitalisation, I could better process your messages

 

[majormajor]

Ooh. Somethings wrong on the Internet.
There U go Schitzo. Get in the phonebox and put your underpants over your trousers......

 

[frussell]

Not to keep this mess going, but to Holly and others, at no time did I ever expect or ask for a new jacket to be sent before I returned the old one. That was never an issue. I will communicate with Holly and try to sort this out. As far as never being an Aero customer, after a few months of being strung along by Mark Moye at Aero USA, I did stay up extra late one night (to reach Aero during business hours) and call Amanda, who frankly treated me like a turd in a punchbowl. After scolding me brusquely for having the gall to not contact her through Mark Moye, she did take down my measurements and info, confirm my order was indeed on file with Aero, and from then on, continued to participate in the same "it'll be ready in two weeks" malarky that I received both from her and Mark Moye via email for the next several months. So in essence, I wasn't just dealing with Aero USA, but with Aero directly as well. Neither did well by me. That's enough for now. Frank

 

[Feraud]

The op asked for shipping options and opinions and received them. Additional philosophical pontifications and opinions on customer service on how Company A is run and how Company B should conduct their exchange polices have contributed to the muddying of the waters of an issue that is already cloudy due to unfortunate practices by unscrupulous employees.

There is a time and place for hashing out grievances but I’d say every thread mentioning the name Aero and AL is not the place. We have the Aero thread where the issues have been very well discussed. Unresolved issues need not creep into every thread.

Let's try and balance our comments to the topic at hand with our feelings on Aero’s attempt to make good on a bad situation. This is not an ideal situation for the consumer or the company to be in.