Seperating myth from reality: Nazi secret tech development projects

[Trenchfriend]

As I understand it, the Bismarck was scuttled to keep the British from boarding it.

Exact.

 

[Trenchfriend]

The steering had been damaged by a torpedo and was no longer operable.

Yep, rudder was jammed on 12° backbord.

 

[Trenchfriend]

The superstructure was heavily damage with large loss of life.

Yep, the British were so near (up to 3000 meters), that they wrecked Bismarck's superstructure with point-blank-fire.

This drawing should be 99% exact.

 

[Turnip]

And what’s the point of all this?

 

[Trenchfriend]

And what’s the point of all this?

The point is, that the old question if Bismarck was sunk or scuttled is answered since many years. Scuttled.

The British needed 14/15 hitting torpedoes to sink Scharnhorst in 1943. They would have needed 25+ hitting torpedoes to finish Bismarck.

Bismarck-class was solidity over fighting power. But outdated battleships in the 40s.

 

[Turnip]

Ah, OK, first time i heard of this old question.

 

[Turnip]

Forgot to ask. What difference makes this in result?

 

[Trenchfriend]

Forgot to ask. What difference makes this in result?

No reason for pride on both sides, just technical facts.

 

[Tiki Tom]

Here's the link to explain the Bell as simply a centrifuge for the bomb project:
https://sites.google.com/site/nazibelluncovered/
This is probably the all-round best explanation of the Bell, anywhere.
I confess that even the 'dumbed down' scientific explanations in this are heavy going for me. The take-away is that yes, there was some super secret sh-t going on connected to the German A-Bomb project (this bell thing had the highest known war priority and secrecy classification in Nazi Germany, which by itself is notable), but there's not much to support flying saucer bases in Antarctica, time machines or Adolf kneading coconut oil onto Eva's hard-to-get-at bits by a pool in Buenos Aires.

It looks like “Die Glocke” story is still alive and well.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/mi...vity-machine-ufo-die-glocke-conspiracy-video/

The above story goes out of its way to paint it all as pure fantasy. Fair enough and probably so. Yet, recent headlines about NASA and MIT scientists meeting to discuss anti-gravity progress can’t help but make a guy wonder about the whole endeavor (at least those of us who sometimes like to indulge our inner adolescent geeks.)

https://futurism.com/nasa-mit-scientists-anti-gravity

I wonder if the discovery of gravitational waves hasn’t reinvigorated the quest a little bit.

https://phys.org/news/2021-11-scientists-tsunami-gravitational.html

One more late addition: According to this, the US Military has been researching anti-gravity for seventy years.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...-researching-anti-gravity-for-nearly-70-years

In short, in reality the Nazis might NOT have experimented with anti-gravity; but rumors that they DID may have nudged others to take the leap.

 

[Turnip]

When even Revell makes a scale model assy, there must be something true with it…

 

[MikeKardec]

Revell models are a wonderful, mostly unexamined, STORY of the past and the future (and our hopes and fears). I would to know more about their product development process and history!!!

 

[Trenchfriend]

And some words on the Battle of the Denmark Strait, because it's not mentioned often.

If Bismarck wouldn't have scored any hits on Hood, Prinz Eugen would have continued scoring hit after hit.

If Hood would have stayed afloat, Prinz Eugen would have surely set her whole deck on fire. The 8" guns were super accurate. If a fast Hipper-Class cruiser got a bead on you, you better start zick-zacking or getting out of battlefield.
Yes, the 15" guns were accurate and powerful, but the 8" shells were a different story. And if Scharnhorst or Gneisenau (or even both) would have been there, instead of Prinz Eugen, imagine... That could have been much more bitter for brand-new Prince of Wales, too.
But for old Hood, it would have been worse, anyways.

And Lütjens held on the strict order to avoid battleship dogfights and forbid Lindemann (and Brinkmann) to hunt Prince of Wales. They would of course have...

 

[Peacoat]

And some words on the Battle of the Denmark Strait, because it's not mentioned often.

If Bismarck wouldn't have scored any hits on Hood, Prinz Eugen would have continued scoring hit after hit.

If Hood would have stayed afloat, Prinz Eugen would have surely set her whole deck on fire. The 8" guns were super accurate. If a fast Hipper-Class cruiser got a bead on you, you better start zick-zacking or getting out of battlefield.
Yes, the 15" guns were accurate and powerful, but the 8" shells were a different story. And if Scharnhorst or Gneisenau (or even both) would have been there, instead of Prinz Eugen, imagine... That could have been much more bitter for brand-new Prince of Wales, too.
But for old Hood, it would have been worse, anyways.

And Lütjens held on the strict order to avoid battleship dogfights and forbid Lindemann (and Brinkmann) to hunt Prince of Wales. They would of course have...

I don't see how it could have been much worse for the " . . . old Hood . . . . " as she was mortally hit shortly after the batlle began. If I remember correctly, only a few crew members survived her rapid sinking. Maybe the ammunition magazines were hit? Hard for it to have been much worse for her.

At the time the Bismarck was the fastet and most feared of the German battleships. The British got lucky in that battle by damaging her, which lessened her ability to fight when the British caught up with her a few days later.

 

[Trenchfriend]

I don't see how it could have been much worse for the " . . . old Hood . . . . " as she was mortally hit shortly after the batlle began. If I remember correctly, only a few crew members survived her rapid sinking. Maybe the ammunition magazines were hit? Hard for it to have been much worse for her.

At the time the Bismarck was the fastet and most feared of the German battleships. The British got lucky in that battle by damaging her, which lessened her ability to fight when the British caught up with her a few days later.

Hit in Hood's aft main ammunition chamber, probably. The majority of her crew was incinerated promptly, like in a firecracker, when the fire ran through the ship and tore it apart.

Prince of Wales wasn't seriously damaged, but too new and still suffering from malfunctions and had to break up fight. Later shadowing Bismarck.

 

[Trenchfriend]

. If I remember correctly, only a few crew members survived her rapid sinking.

The three, but in earlier days, Ted Briggs said, he saw some further alive in the water, but later he always mentioned only the other two survivors on the other side of the burning oil.
Anyways, Ted Briggs seemed to have a guardian angel, which made Hood's underwater explosion strong enough to push him out of the water again. Yes, he had luck to be on his station on the compass platform, but in the water, he was soaked down and down and down until the explosion happened.

When Hood was still intact, a 15" shell from Bismarck hit the main mast above the compass platform and Ted Briggs looked out to see what happened and he saw the "nightmare" beginning...

Cpt. John Leach on the brandnew Prince of Wales, which also had a real guardian angel when a 15" shell wrecked his Admirals Bridge and killed his men with exception of him and another man (!), surely informed Churchill about the shocking gun accuracy of Bismarck and the heavy cruiser.

No wonder, Churchill wanted to eliminate the german ships as soon as possible. Who would really think, that it was only the shock of losing the Hood? Royal Navy also never forgot Jutland and the german guns...

And what Scharnhorst and Gneisenau did to the Glorious in 1940!

 

[Trenchfriend]

At the time the Bismarck was the fastet and most feared of the German battleships.

Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were the fastest. And same way dangerous for british units. No wonder, Royal Navy hated the fast "Sisters" and used every chance to damage them.

38.000+ tons (in action) <> 150.000 to 160.000 SHP

 

[Peacoat]

Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were the fastest. And same way dangerous for british units. No wonder, Royal Navy hated the fast "Sisters" and used every chance to damage them.

38.000+ tons (in action) <> 150.000 to 160.000 SHP

You haven't watched enough WWII war movies. Had you watched as many as my friends and I did in the 50s and 60s, you would know the Bismarck was the fastest, the most dangerous and the most feared of the German battleships.* We didn't know the names of any of the others.
_____
* Lest there be any misunderstanding, this sentence is intended to be humorous.

 

[Trenchfriend]

And to the thing, that Bismarck Class was practically the new improved Bayern Class:

Yes, of course, but it shouldn't be forgotten, that the basic of design was still the Derfflinger. The "Derfflingers" were the new generation, new construction concept.
And the Navy had the biggest fear to switch from the strong "front proven" all-or-nothing turtleback armour to a new unproven concept.

But sure, what they clearly forgot:
Battleship F and G would be ready for service in the 40s! And everyone saw, that brandnew aircraft carriers were coming up and more and more battlecruisers were rebuild to aircraft carriers.

But new WW I-dogfighter battleships, without aircraft carriers to escort?? And the triple propulsion shaft design, again??
Meeeeh...

 

[FOXTROT LAMONT]

Cadet studies surrounding Operation Market Garden focused its failure as learning yardstick such as the efficacy of airborne insertion at primary objective; even against entrenched held position by singular less concentrated attack force. The Americans lost close to 4,000 men; British/Poles over 10,000. Technical vantage,
if gained, can prove a deciding factor over numerical strength and was pounded throught lecture analysis.

 

[Bugguy]

I don't know how I missed this thread, but it makes interesting reading. As it's a little picture light, I'll add this one. In another version, there's only a single saucer.

Also, this year is the 80th anniversary of Operation Market Garden. My father landed there in a WACO glider.