Selvedge Jeans - looking for suggestions

[Mr Badger]

Does anyone own a pair of these jeans? How much did they shrink? Thank you.

You can usually reckon that, even with a cold handwash, selvedge jeans will shrink roughly 2" in the leg length and around 1-1 1/2" around the waist. The first few years of the Levi's Vintage Clothing range used to figure this into the actual measurements (i.e. if you bought a pair of 'dry' jeans that were labelled 38", they actually came up at 40" round the waist) but the later pairs I've had, when unwashed, are the exact size on the ticket so you'll need to go up a size if you wanna wash 'em. For the record, the Lee, Edwin and Wrangler repros do come up larger than the ticket size, in both waist and leg length, while the Ace Jeans, Cheap Monday and Freddies of Pinewood models don't...

 

[Edward]

You can usually reckon that, even with a cold handwash, selvedge jeans will shrink roughly 2" in the leg length and around 1-1 1/2" around the waist. The first few years of the Levi's Vintage Clothing range used to figure this into the actual measurements (i.e. if you bought a pair of 'dry' jeans that were labelled 38", they actually came up at 40" round the waist) but the later pairs I've had, when unwashed, are the exact size on the ticket so you'll need to go up a size if you wanna wash 'em. For the record, the Lee, Edwin and Wrangler repros do come up larger than the ticket size, in both waist and leg length, while the Ace Jeans, Cheap Monday and Freddies of Pinewood models don't...

Advice I read on the Freddie's site said to order your own size as they're pre-shrunk rather than dry.... is that not the case? (Hope it's right, cause I followed it!).

 

[Rudie]

Yes, they're pre-shrunk. But they still run larger and not true to size like Mr Badger suggested. I'm between sizes and went with the smaller size. I still can't wear them without a belt or I'd look like one of those hip hop boys with their pants down low.

 

[Mr Badger]

Advice I read on the Freddie's site said to order your own size as they're pre-shrunk rather than dry.... is that not the case? (Hope it's right, cause I followed it!).

Yes, they're pre-shrunk. But they still run larger and not true to size like Mr Badger suggested. I'm between sizes and went with the smaller size. I still can't wear them without a belt or I'd look like one of those hip hop boys with their pants down low.

Apologies for clouding the issue, gents, yes they are pre-shunk, but I guess there's a little natural variance between batches/models. The ones I got were dead-on, mebbe 1/2" larger than tagged.

Shame they're pre-washed but for £35 in the sale I was really happy, am just gonna miss the really nice wear marks which develop from wearing totally dry jeans that are full of starch, only washing 'em a few months down the line. The sub-text of the Freddies jeans, to me, is that I guess many of their folks can't quite get their head around the shrinkage factor...

Rudie, guess it depends how tight you like the waistband of your jeans to be. I'd rather have a little extra room then use a belt to cinch it in a little. When it comes to selvedge jeans that have a decent rise and leg length, I purposely turn them up twice, in order to be able to wear 'em with a single or double cuff. This lets me wear 'em below my navel (when I've had too much beer / been to the US!), or above with a shirt tucked in... I've found that the Edwin Nashvilles and Levi's 1944 S501 are the perfect rise for me, neither too high nor low.

 

[Edward]

I'd prefer a little extra room too, though I'm currently between sizes and getting smaller, so I'll be grand in my current size. I'll happily trade off the shrinkage factor against being sure when I buy that they will continue to fit me. Mind you, dry denim must be a breeze compared to bondage trews in which, while they don't shrink, you can guarantee if you have a bum at all you'll need to go up at least three sizes.

 

[ButteMT61]

I got a pair of Levi's 514 dry and they are pretty good for $100. Shopping now for more to try, but it is confusing with sizes, shrinkage, etc. lots of thought to get it right, esp if you do this online...

 

[St. Valentine]

I got a pair of Levi's 514 dry and they are pretty good for $100. Shopping now for more to try, but it is confusing with sizes, shrinkage, etc. lots of thought to get it right, esp if you do this online...

The internet is a mess when it comes to "raw denim". I suppose people tend to exaggerate things like always. Same goes for sizes. It´s quite difficult when you shop online and with all this "one size larger - true to size - to shrink or not to shrink - business"! :eusa_doh: I just soaked both my Japan Blue Momotaro and the new Momotaro 0201 (STF) and hope they will turn out nicely. [huh]

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

St: Valentine...say, are you part of that Heritage Post magazine project? The things you prefer seem to be exactly the same as featured in the magazine

 

[Jaguar66]

Filson and Levis have a collaboration selvedge jean, I think. 505's, which is a 501 with a zipper instead of button fly.

A 505 is similar to a 501 but not exactly. It is true the 505 has a zipper vs the button fly of the 501, but the rise is longer in a 505, and the leg width is not exactly the same.

The 501 has undergone size changes over the years. I have a number of the slimmer cut 501s prior to the resizing that occurred in the late 90s. 501s were some of the last mass produced Levis jeans that were made exclusively in the the US, but along with the size change, 501s began to be made in Mexico, and elsewhere. Only a few designer cut Levis are made in the US anymore.

Here is a definition of selfedge from wikipedia

Selvage denim





Selvage on a pair of jeans
Selvage denim (alternative spelling: selvedge denim) is a type of denim which forms a clean natural edge that does not unravel. It is commonly presented in the unwashed or raw state. Typically, the selvage edges will be located along the out-seam of the trousers, making it visible when cuffs are worn.

The word "selvage" comes from the phrase "self-edge", the natural edge of a roll of fabric. As applied to denim, it means that which is made on old-style shuttle looms. These looms weave fabric with one continuous cross thread (the weft) that is passed back and forth all the way down the length of the bolt. As the weft loops back into the edge of the denim it creates this “self-edge” or selvage. Selvage is desirable because the edge cannot fray like denim made on a projectile loom that has separate wefts, which leave an open edge that must be stitched. This advantage is only realized on one edge of the fabric, however, as the fabric has to be cut to shape and anywhere it is cut the self-edge is lost.

Shuttle looms weave a narrower piece of fabric, and thus a longer piece of fabric is required to make a pair of jeans (approximately 3 yards). To maximize yield, traditional jean makers use the fabric all the way to the selvedge edge. When the cuff is turned up, the two selvedge edges (where the denim is sewn together) can be seen. The selvage edge is usually stitched with colored thread: green, white, brown, yellow, and (most commonly) red. Fabric mills used these colors to differentiate between fabrics.

Most selvage jeans today are dyed with synthetic indigo, but natural indigo dye is available in some denim labels. Though they are supposed to have the same chemical makeup, there are more impurities in the natural indigo dye. Loop dying machines feed a rope of cotton yarn through vats of indigo dye and then back out. The dye is allowed to oxidize before the next dip. Multiple dips create a deep dark indigo blue.

In response to increased demand for jeans in the 1950s, American denim manufacturers replaced the old shuttle style looms with modern projectile looms. The new looms produced fabric faster and wider (60 inches or wider). Synthetic dying techniques along with post-dye treatments were introduced to control shrink and twist.

Selvage denim is one of the more expensive denims because of its durability, and self-edge that will never fray.

Here is an article in the San Francisco Chronicle a while ago, that lists places that carry some of these items

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/01/01/LVR71LQS35.DTL

 

[St. Valentine]

St: Valentine...say, are you part of that Heritage Post magazine project? The things you prefer seem to be exactly the same as featured in the magazine

LOL! Unfortunately not part of it but let´s say I am under heavy influence of it. Which proves that commercial advertising actually works.....

 

[Mr Badger]

The internet is a mess when it comes to "raw denim". I suppose people tend to exaggerate things like always. Same goes for sizes. It´s quite difficult when you shop online and with all this "one size larger - true to size - to shrink or not to shrink - business"! :eusa_doh: I just soaked both my Japan Blue Momotaro and the new Momotaro 0201 (STF) and hope they will turn out nicely. [huh]

That's true, 'raw denim' certainly has taken the mind of the world's marketeers by storm – it doesn't necessarily mean that it's any better, much of it is simply untreated, poor quality denim, which they can charge more for while making even larger profits because they haven't had to pay for it to be aged. I've also handled some selvedge jeans that simply weren't worth the moolah.

I got a pair of Levi's 514 dry and they are pretty good for $100. Shopping now for more to try, but it is confusing with sizes, shrinkage, etc. lots of thought to get it right, esp if you do this online...

Yup, it's a pain, especially when many online retailers don't list things like the measured size of the waist, rise, etc, only the tagged size. Then you gotta factor in shrinkage and not really knowing what the 'hand' (feel) of the denim or the fit is really like. However, us FLers do go thru a similar procedure for a lot of our staple clothing (boots, leather jackets, suits, fedoras) so it's just another learning process, albeit one that many of us could do without!

 

[ButteMT61]

I was wearing 505s when I gained weight. Now that I've lost it, I'm back to 501s. The 514 is similar in cut to the 501. I'm not a fan of the low-rise craze, which makes it harder.
All this learning costs too much money and time. At times I feel like crying UNCLE!!! lol

 

[seabass]

ButteMT61
Try Before you Buy !
we have the advantage over our Pals on the other side of the big pond....
Selfedge in LA & Mr Freedom they are very close to each store i think there both on the same st.... Beverly Blvd
yea they cost but you will see the diffrence when you try em on.....
no trial & error by internet buys...
& best of all
no ballcrusher jeans .

 

[ButteMT61]

ButteMT61Try Before you Buy !we have the advantage over our Pals on the other side of the big pond....Selfedge in LA & Mr Freedom they are very close to each store i think there both on the same st.... Beverly Blvdyea they cost but you will see the diffrence when you try em on.....no trial & error by internet buys...& best of allno ballcrusher jeans .

Thanks Seabass! I think yer right. Time for a drive...

 

[St. Valentine]

& best of all
no ballcrusher jeans .

LOL, I´ve got to remember this....

 

[seabass]

NO:
Ballcrusher, Butthugger, Superlow Bikini rise, Teeny 3''Zipper (ouch), or Teeny Button Fly, Skinny (like in 12 years old again) Cut, OR Cut Baggy Like a Droopy Gang Banger Cut, oh & no showing of Droopy Drawer's...............

 

[Mr Badger]

The English version, originally applied to Speedo briefs, would be 'budgie-smugglers'!

 

[St. Valentine]

The English version, originally applied to Speedo briefs, would be 'budgie-smugglers'!

LOL! You´re killing me.....

 

[ButteMT61]

Suddenly, I want a big pair of sweatpants... lol