Rosie the Riveter

[Mrs. Merl]

Thought this thread needed this...

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[Mrs. Merl]

I don't think they look that way at all!! But, none the less I won't show you my arms!

 

[jetgirl]

I like this Rosie picture. Even more, I wish I knew what those pants are!

I looked up what this is from, and the Glamour slideshow has a few good women icon photos.
http://www.glamour.com/magazine/2009/03/american-icons#slide=1

 

[Miss Neecerie]

that drawing disturbs me because of her man-arms. *shudder*

Its not man arms....its the drawing perspective....its supposed to feel like the arm is leaving the drawing and coming out (probably done to make you feel like you are a part of her world....thus you could do what she does)....a vague sort of 3-d effect if you will...so her arm is at a totally different angle....if you notice, the actual point of her elbow is visible....

where in the recreation it isn't visible at all..


This angle means that each stretch of skin -seems- bigger .....

 

[texasgirl]

Here's the Norman Rockwell one; I believe he came up with the name Rosie.

And this one is cute:

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Here's the Norman Rockwell one; I believe he came up with the name Rosie.

ok...now those are man arms...

 

[Mrs. Merl]

Well, I would imagine you might get rather strong arms if you worked in a factory all day anyway.

 

[Mrs. Merl]

yea, well look at the forearms in this pic compared to the original...the orginal lost the feminine shape of the forearm. There is no definition of the wrist.

lol If I was a young lady back then, that poster would have freaked me out and I would have been like--- "no way! I don't want man arms!" lol

I really don't particularly like this photo at all. Additionally, I think that the message of strength in the original is lost entirely with what I would consider a very waif like image. (Plus, these are arms I might cry over. Not for me.) And I agree also that the perspective is quite a point of difference in original to the above image.

Though, the Norman Rockwell is quite definitely the most different, I think there is something very endearing about his Rosie, she is pretty much adorable even with her big arms. I think given what the original images (the icon and N. Rockwell's) are portraying it was not at all out of place to imagine women as they are shown here - strong and able. I don't think women of the time would have been taken aback by these at all. Otherwise, I doubt very much that the one would have persisted to become the icon it is still today.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

I really don't particularly like this photo at all. Additionally, I think that the message of strength in the original is lost entirely with what I would consider a very waif like image. (Plus, these are arms I might cry over. Not for me.) And I agree also that the perspective is quite a point of difference in original to the above image.

Though, the Norman Rockwell is quite definitely the most different, I think there is something very endearing about his Rosie, she is pretty much adorable even with her big arms. I think given what the original images (the icon and N. Rockwell's) are portraying it was not at all out of place to imagine women as they are shown here - strong and able. I don't think women of the time would have been taken aback by these at all. Otherwise, I doubt very much that the one would have persisted to become the icon it is still today.

Oh I agree completely...and trust me...I would prefer her arms to my own flabby floppy tricepted arms any day of the week.....manly or not...hehe...

I also think that they were drawn in a time when they did not realise that hard labor or weights would not make a woman bulk up.....so logically they sort of extended the 'she is lifting things' to 'that will give her big muscled arms'....

To me both of them look like they -could- take care of America.......where some of the reproductions ....well I wouldn't trust them to make me a tank....

 

[Miss Neecerie]

ARGHHH!!!!! Def man arms!!!! And why is she eating her sandwich with those dirty grubby hands????!!!

I dont think, personally for me, making a woman appear more masculine-limbed is very true to being what a woman represents. The intagible qualities are not represented, to me, by man-arms. They are in the strength of her eyes and the determination of her face. Look at the face of my version...That face is awesome! The original has the face too, but also has the wierd man-arm-perspective thing that is off putting.

she is eating her sandwich in situ....because there's a war on.....and every minute counts to get the needed stuff to the soldiers.....

I hate to disagree...but the 'modern' picture....she just looks like she is -trying to look punk rock tough'....

Its 'don't mess with me'...vs 'I am determined to help, because my country needs me'

 

[texasgirl]

A couple more interesting ones:

A bit more realistic

I love the waitress? in heels bringing out the food!

 

[~Psycho Sue~]

those are the best two I have ever seen TexasGirl!

 

[jetgirl]

These are so great.
I actually like the N.R. one. She's a Rosie with character, even with her man arms.

 

[23SkidooWithYou]

I think it all had a "propeganda" vibe. It had to if the country was ever going to change the established mind set surrounding the role of the "weaker" sex. Can you imagine, after decades of pounding wife/mother/pretty little homemaker into our heads, what went through the minds of the powers that be when they woke up one morning and realized that was all that was left to form the work force were citizens with euterus??? Oh crud! :eusa_doh:

I'm sure there were women who never felt bound by social norms and didn't think twice about stepping up to the plate. I'm also sure there were others who needed a little convincing. Same thing with the husbands still stateside. What a blow it could have been to egos if your wife was working outside the home. The nation, as a whole, had to make it socially acceptable to break the mold and FAST. Those posters helped do just that.

I like the Westinghouse Rosie...she's got confidence.
Mr. Rockwell's Rosie seems more a reflection or a moment captured than an inspiration...and yet Rosie, in any form, is still inspirational.

I have no issue with the means they took to get women into the work force but I'm always sad that they expected them to bow out so quickly and return to the old way of thought. Then again, I suppose if my husband had come home...HOME is where I'd want to be.

 

[Foofoogal]

I found this article in my newspaper yesterday. At the Smithsonian I saw a display of Rosie. A real part of our history. Shows women can get the job done when need be. Makes me wonder what would of happened had they not pulled up the slack.
I like to think American still has stock from these kind of ladies.
http://www.sandysfancypants.blogspot.com

I had originally started this thread with this. I wonder if the Rosie hall or display is still at the Smithsonian. This was back in 1999 when I went there.
Completely made me think differently about my country. Propaganda is not the word. It worked though.
It also worked when after the War they wanted the women to go back home. It also worked in the 1970s to get women working.
and so on...

 

[zendy]

I'm a modern day iron worker, and I don't think those are man arms, if they are guess mine are too. The drawing we all know has that arm because it is all about perspective and meaning rather than trying to be a realistic portrait. As for the grubby hands, when you're hungry, you're hungry, and even though you wash your hands, they still look like that. Hell, even if you haven't worked in days they look like that. I love the original pictures, and agree with Miss Neecerie, that new photo is nothing but "tough punk look"

edited to include my iron working arm

 

[Christy]

Thank you for posting the article, it was very interesting and they are such a cute couple!

I definitely don't think the Westinghouse Rosie looks like she has man arms. Her arms look strong, not manish. I think the picture portrays a since of confidence, but she still has femininity. To me it says, "Don't worry, we'll take care of America while the men are away". I think the modern version that was posted doesn't portray that at all. She just looks moody and her arms look very frail.

Edited to add: Zendy, those don't look like man arms to me, and way to go for being a welder, to me it sounds like a tough job.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think it all had a "propeganda" vibe. It had to if the country was ever going to change the established mind set surrounding the role of the "weaker" sex.

I think that's exactly it, especially in the case of the Rockwell image. If you look at his art in general, there's always a very slight degree of caricature in his images -- he's looking at us, the American people, and showing us the way we *imagine* ourselves to be, not necessarily the way we really are. That's what makes his paintings so effective.

In the case of Rosie, he's taking an ordinary blue-collar working-class gal -- who might very well have been doing factory work *before* the war made it fashionable, as many thousands of working-class women did -- and he's turning her into a figure out of Greek mythology, an Amazon. You want a "woman warrior?" We'll GIVE you a "woman warrior," and then some. Take that, Adolf.

Besides the Amazon angle, the specific pose in Rockwell's Rosie was an homage to another famous image -- Michaelangelo's painting of the biblical prophet Isaiah, another fearless warrior-for-justice figure:

The Westinghouse poster gal, by contrast, looks much more to me like a middle-class lady who had not been accustomed to getting her hands dirty before the war, and now she's finding that she can do a lot more than she ever thought she could. I think that's as much the meaning of the slogan as it is a general declaration of purpose.

 

[VintageVixie]

I think there is alot of 60's 70's and modern day feminism being projected onto Rosie.

It makes sense. The days of WW2 were the first time many women had a taste of what it was to be something other than a homemaker. For many, I'm sure all they wanted was to get back to home and hearth but they were doing their duty and usually happily so for the war effort. (I would have been one of those, I am a domestic goddess, but would have been doing my bit every chance.) For others, working in a factory or on farms as the Women's Land Army did, suited them better and gave them a taste of what else was out there, and the potential they might not have otherwise seen. The feminist ideal is about women being allowed to do what they want whatever it is, and to have control over their own lives, not being the opposite of what tradition warranted. People think of it only from the stronger movements of later decades, but from the Suffragettes through the factory women, you had feminism- women in factories often had to fight for their right to equal access and work because the men already there, who couldn't go to war, often resented them. People just have given the word a bad rap.

I don't want to get into a debate about that word, though, I just think it makes sense that feminism and Rosie go together. They do in my family.

 

[Mrs. Merl]

Well, said. I think many often forget that women have been fighting for their equality for quite a bit longer than often comes to mind.