Return of the Broad Brimmed Hat

[1961MJS]

Hi, mine was born in 1919 (and is still kicking). He didn't mention until this year that his mother-in-law caused him to quit wearing hats because he laughed at his stingy brim hat. Grandaddy Harv was still wearing a corduroy fedora with about a 2.5 inch brim. Yes that term there before Fedora is in fact corduroy. Just cause it sounds really stupid don't mean it didn't happen.

Dad now switches between wearing a WW2 vet hat I bought him about 5 years ago, a First National Bank of Raymond baseball hat, or his American Legion hat.

Later

 

[Tiller]

My observation is that these greatest generation men came to prefer shorter brims for their functionality and appearance. Most of them just moved ahead with the times and forgot about fedoras completely. Brim size isn't so important to me. I wear a wider brim, but I have a soft spot for 'stingy brims', or as men used to call them... 'hats'.

I wonder if it had more to do with availability then simply a preference for the stingy brims. I say that because my Grandfather (A fellow member of the Greatest Generation) didn't like stingies because in his opinion they served no purpose. The fedoras that he did own were the same ones he had own since he was young, he simply had them separated between his good hats and his work hats. His work hats were beaten to death and constantly were repaired, at the time he would send them out to be cleaned and fixed up.

Why? A wide brim's actual does what a hat was designed to do, it protects the wearer from the elements. The last time my Grandmother (another Greatest Generation member) saw me in a stingy hat (I do have some as I've mentioned) the first thing out of her mouth was "Your Grandfather hated those useless small brim hats you know! They don't even protect your neck from the sun." It's also why he thought that top hats were useless.

Now my Grandfather made his money by farming, and from the lumber company that he owned. Either way if he wore a hat he needed one that actually protected him. A stingy may keep the top of your head dry, but for sun protection they are found to be pretty useless by many people. For him wearing a stingy brimmed hat in the field would have made about as much since as wearing a cap instead of a hard hat when he was sawing trees.

Now personally I doubt my Grandfather was that odd of a duck, and I'm sure others his age had an opinion similar to his. I'd guess many of those twenty somethings in the 40's started buying more stingy hats when they were forty somethings in the 60's because that was the style being made at the time, and when hats died because the Boomers didn't want to dress like their parents it was the stingy hat that continued to be made by in large. Like today, if I had to guess (for those Greatest Generation members who are here and lived threw it I'd love for you to chime in) if you wanted something that wasn't made on a more "mass" scale, it cost you more. So for those who still enjoyed the wider brim hats, they would have to pay more for it.

Now as I said I own some stingys, but if I had to actually work outside in it during the summer I'd want a wide brim. A stingy hat simply doesn't offer the same kind of protection, because quit frankly size those matter at times.

Now as far as the whole "is a stingy a fedora" debate goes, as I recall the main argument is that stingy brims should really be classified as trilby hat, and that they aren't fedoras. In fact if you are interested some "hat history" sites, state this as a fact so search away.

 

[randooch]

Maybe we should attempt to nudge the prevailing descriptor "stingy-brim" to something else. Perhaps "economy-brim"? "Stingy" has negative connotations; may as well call 'em "cheap," you know? Then again, so does "economy." With the collective power of FLers, a change of terminology is a possibility. Any ideas?

 

[DJH]

I've been reading this thread and I must confess I've lost track of why I should care how big someone's brim is.

Is it like the Spaceballs thing "I see your Schwartz is as big as mine"??

 

[Chuck Bobuck]

Tiller, I agree that it was more of an availability issue as they were the style of the time. My dad and uncle sold insurance and they went to clients homes. I think they dressed well and wore the hat of the day to present themselves nicely. The narrow brims were more compact, easier to move in and out of doorways, cars, crowds, etc. My grandfather was born in 1863 and passed in 1943. Somewhere I have a photo of him wearing a short crowned, narrow brimmed hat toward the end of his life.

 

[John in Covina]

Maybe we should attempt to nudge the prevailing descriptor "stingy-brim" to something else. Perhaps "economy-brim"? "Stingy" has negative connotations; may as well call 'em "cheap," you know? Then again, so does "economy." With the collective power of FLers, a change of terminology is a possibility. Any ideas?

Brim challenged.

 

[Yeps]

Maybe we should attempt to nudge the prevailing descriptor "stingy-brim" to something else. Perhaps "economy-brim"? "Stingy" has negative connotations; may as well call 'em "cheap," you know? Then again, so does "economy." With the collective power of FLers, a change of terminology is a possibility. Any ideas?

I think we should campaign for trilby meaning stingy, but I doubt that our British friends will put up with that.

 

[The Good]

Trilby is generally what I use when I refer to narrow brim fedoras under two inches. I think a lot of others refer to stingy brims as trilbies too, it's not mutually exclusive to us hat enthusiasts here. Sometimes on the internet, I even read posts by younger guys, in their teens and twenties (not necessarily British either), referring to a stingy hat as a trilby, often times correcting one or more posts that were saying a narrow brimmed hat is a fedora. I see this on a lot of trendier blogs or fashion forums, even the well-known Style Forum.

 

[fmw]

Here is Wikipedia's take on it.

"A trilby hat (or simply trilby) is a type of hat. Although also used as a synonym for a short-brimmed fedora in the United Kingdom, the trilby is distinguished by a very narrow brim that is sharply turned up in the back and a short crown, which is pinched in the front and indented into a teardrop shape in the center. The hat's name derives from the stage adaptation of George du Maurier's 1894 novel Trilby; a hat of this style was worn in the first London production of the play, and promptly came to be called "a Trilby hat".

Traditionally it was made from rabbit hair felt, but is now sometimes made from other materials, including tweed, straw, and wool. The hat reached its zenith of popularity in the 1960s, when it supplanted the wider brimmed fedora; the steadily lowering roofs of previously taller American automobiles made it impractical to wear a hat with a larger brim and tall crown while driving. It faded from popularity in the 1970s when any type of men's headwear became obsolete, and men's fashion instead began focusing on highly maintained hairstyles.

The hat resurged in popularity in the early 2000s, when it was marketed to both men and women in an attempt to capitalize on a retro fashion trend. The hat has remained popular with both sexes into the 2010s, with various manufacturers experimenting with different patterns and emblazoning logos and other designs into the sides of the hat.

The hat has been associated with jazz, ska and soul musicians, as well as members of the indie, rude boy, mod, and 2 Tone subcultures.

A notable wearer of the trilby is Frank Sinatra. Sean Connery wore one in the first five James Bond movies, until changing trends necessitated that the suave character stop wearing a hat, lest he be seen as anachronistic or outdated by young filmgoers. The hat was used by Connery's stuntman as a way of disguising his true identity on screen."

 

[DJH]

I can never think of a trilby without a vision of Arthur Daley!

His brim was quite small.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I did have a hard time with my broad-brimmed fedora when I had my 60 Bel-Air. Once you were in, it was fine, but the in and out was a hassle sometimes. My Chevy Silverado, much more hat-friendly.

 

[Andykev]

Maybe we should attempt to nudge the prevailing descriptor "stingy-brim" to something else. Perhaps "economy-brim"? "Stingy" has negative connotations; may as well call 'em "cheap," you know? Then again, so does "economy." With the collective power of FLers, a change of terminology is a possibility. Any ideas?

How about a "Jack Benny Brim"?

 

[Chinaski]

Have we offended our shorter-brimmed brethren? Have those mean old guys with fat hats caused them to feel inadequate? I haven't heard any of them speaking up to say they need saving. Do we really need a PC term for stingies?

 

[elvisroe]

"Trilby" certainly means a short brim down under. Also commonly called a "punter's hat" as in worn at the track.
Personally I'm loving seeing hats make a comeback. Yes, most of them are crappy little pinstriped fabric or paper numbers, but it's a start...and still allows we hat snobs to feel comfortably smug in our luscious fur-felts

 

[Hoyt Clagwell]

What is the maximum brim width before a fedora can no longer be called a fedora?Just askin.

 

[fmw]

I don't think the term relates all that much to brim width but it brings up a number of questions. Is an Open Road with cattleman's crease a fedora? Is it a fedora with a teardrop crease and the brim snapped down? Is a pork pie a fedora? How about a homburg? Or an outback hat? Is the requirement a snapped down brim and snapped up back? Does it relate to the crease?

 

[DRB]

You can't measure the size of a man by his brim

 

[mayserwegener]

This has been debated over and over again. Originally (late 1800s into the first part of the 1900s) the Fedora / Alpine hat meant a center crease (called the Fedora / Apline crease) soft felt hat. The early ones usually had a good bit of taper, varied crown height and moderate brim width with a smile curl (see the early Homburg). Also specific crown height, taper and brim width were not exclusive to any era.

 

[Sam Craig]

This has been debated over and over again. Originally (late 1800s into the first part of the 1900s) the Fedora / Alpine hat meant a center crease (called the Fedora / Apline crease) soft felt hat. They usually had a good bit of taper, varied crown height and moderate brim width with a smile curl (see the early Homburg). Also specific crown height, taper and brim width were not exclusive to any era.

Yeah, it varies with time and design ....
The Indy fedora ... especially as "distressed" for the Streets of Cairo look, is pushing the envelope to be included with a Dobbs Gamebird or a Stetson Whippet.
As you can see in "Shadow of a Doubt," the Open Road style hat ... I believe it's actually a Strat ... was being worn as a dress hat, with a suit, in the 40s. It was certainly being WORN as a fedora.

Just as an aside ... In "Fort Apache" ... 1948 John Ford ... Henry Fonda, as the prima dona commanding cavalry officer, when he is upbraiding the shabbily dressed officers, tells them at one point that their campaign hats should be creased, fore and aft -- fedora style -- whatever John Ford thought that meant
Which is ridiculous, by the way. There was no regulation on creasing and in the period photos you will see every crease imaginable in campaign hats ...

It seems the meaning of "fedora" keeps shifting

Welcome to the wonderful world of hats,

Sam

 

[mayserwegener]

It was fairly consistent from the late 1800s into the 1920s (Fedora / Alpine see above discription). RLK (Robert) did a great job of research a while back. Once you get into the 40s the term starts to lose the original meaning.