Replacement Hat Liner

[jake_fink]

What was the most common or the best material for lining hats prior to the Great Doffing? I'm sure there is a difference betwen silk (or whatever material was used) and rayon which became more common in later hats (unless I'm wrong), but what is the difference to a wearer?

Also, I hate, HATE, those thick plastic patches that are stuck in the crown of many later and current hats. What can they possibly be good for? Waterproofing? They make me hot and itchy and they make my hair stand up (which is no minor thing considering the waxing I give it of a morning). What do you folks think of them?

I'd love any information or comments from any and all parties.

Cheers.

 

[Fedora]

What was the most common or the best material for lining hats prior to the Great Doffing? I'm sure there is a difference betwen silk (or whatever material was used) and rayon which became more common in later hats (unless I'm wrong), but what is the difference to a wearer?

Also, I hate, HATE, those thick plastic patches that are stuck in the crown of many later and current hats. What can they possibly be good for? Waterproofing? They make me hot and itchy and they make my hair stand up (which is no minor thing considering the waxing I give it of a morning). What do you folks think of them?

I'd love any information or comments from any and all parties.

On the plastic caps on the liners, I like them personally. I would have really liked them if I were still in the 1950's and was using Wild Root Cream Oil, or even Vitalis. Most of the hat cleanings done in the past involved removing the grease and oil that inevitably found its way into the felt and straw hats of that era. All the plastic cap on the liner does is to keep the crest nice looking. But, for hot weather wear, heck, I take my liners out. Felt will breath better without a finely woven liner. And the hat will be cooler to wear.


On the liner materials, I think as soon as the cheaper synthetics arrrived, they were utilized. My personal favorite was a material called Taffeta, I think. Very thin, very finely woven and durable as well. Nowdays, you see mostly satin liners, with some being really, really thick. Personally, I like a good quality thinner liner. And that is what I liked about the Taffeta. (probably not spelled correctly) I bought a few vintage hats from ebay with this type of liner. Seems like they were in the Stetson 7x hats, but I could be wrong. I do know the crest was not a print, but embroidered into the liner. Classy, and very nice looking. I wish I could source a liner made of this material. While the satin liners are common nowadays, I detest them personally. Satin belongs on bridal gowns. [huh] Fedora

 

[MattC]

Satins and caps

I am pretty sure that satin can be made either from silk or synthetics like Rayon, etc. A lot of earlier liners are silk/satin, and you can really tell the difference. I've got one old Borsalino with a pure silk liner. Very nice. Borso also made a few "breathable" liners, made for lightweight hats to wear in warm weather. While I don't take liners out, I do tend to switch to hats which were unlined (like the Knox Vagabond) when it gets hotter.

I share your dislike for the plastic caps over the crest, only because if the hat hits the top of my heat, the platic tends to stick if I sweat (which I do when it gets warm). Someone on the lounge told me to just take the plastic cover off, which worked. Oddly enough, stickiness was less of a problem with the acetate liners used in the late 40s and very early 50s (the plastic over the crest will be either opaque or yellow). I suppose they got rid of them because the crest was harder to see. And acetate deteriorates over time.

Cavanagh (which I've always thought was the king of American hat makers) never did use plastic over the crest. Maybe the relatively higher crowns meant they needed less protection (plastic did appear briefly in Cav.'s final days, but by then it was like the Studeabaker Packard--a pale imitation of itself).

 

[jake_fink]

On the plastic caps on the liners, I like them personally. I would have really liked them if I were still in the 1950's and was using Wild Root Cream Oil, or even Vitalis.

I do use Wildroot and the plastic liner manages to uproot my coiff! [huh]

Thanks guys.

 

[Mulceber]

I've honestly never had a problem with the plastic caps. I find if I sweat, I tend to sweat around the brow, and any sweat on my scalp has to go through about 1/2 inches of hair before it can touch the plastic. I've got one of the older AB's though, which doesn't have the plastic cap, so it's been a while since I wore a hat with one. -Mulceber

 

[jpdesign]

Fedora,
In my costuming experience, Taffeta is a type of weave, not a material. It is a thicker woven fabric often made from sinthetic fibers, previously of silk and cotton blends, that had a somewhat ruff feel, sometimes is woven from two colors and changes colors depending on lighting. It is often used in ball gown with skirts that stand out from the waist. A thinner version would work for a hat liner. Would be quite interesting to use color changing taffeta actually. But it is a type of weave, not a fiber.

 

[Not-Bogart13]

Mixed Blessing?

The plastic caps in the liners are not for me, but I see the point. If I used something in my hair, like oil or cream, or even mousse, that plastic would make me feel more secure about the felt not getting ruined.

As it stands, I'm an all-natural kind of guy. At least with my hair. I find that the hats I have with plastic in them make me sweat more, while the ones without tend to let my scalp breath a little better. That's my POV, anyway.
NB

 

[mthatter]

erased by mt

 

[Undertow]

Does anyone know where I can purchase a number of hat liners (silk/rayon/etc.)? Generic is fine, but I'll take any brand if they're available.

I can't seem to find anything serious online.

I will be removing the ribbon and liner from some hats, blocking and cleaning and then replacing ribbon and liner with new material. I'll also likely post photos!

Any help would be fantastic! Thanks!

(ps or would it be easier to just get a raw piece of silk/rayon and just sew it in?)

 

[Rick Blaine]

LEKO

LINERS

Does anyone know where I can purchase a number of hat liners (silk/rayon/etc.)? Generic is fine, but I'll take any brand if they're available.

I can't seem to find anything serious online.

I will be removing the ribbon and liner from some hats, blocking and cleaning and then replacing ribbon and liner with new material. I'll also likely post photos!

Any help would be fantastic! Thanks!

(ps or would it be easier to just get a raw piece of silk/rayon and just sew it in?)

 

[Dewhurst]

The plastic "tip" protectors (that's what Biltmore used to call them, anyway) are interesting. I like them and I leave them alone. When I see the accumulated head oils on the plastic from wear I feel more confident. And it is easy to clean off, while sweat stains in the satin lining are mostly permanent in accumulation. Some of my flatcaps even have a plastic thingy covering the stitched in logo/emblem (mostly Jonathan Richards caps). So, all kinds of hats have them and they don't seem to bother me.

None of this helps you, I'm afraid.

Rayon is actually a very impressive artificial fiber in my opinion. I have always found Rayon linings, and other Rayon apparel, to be incredibly comfortable and amazingly "breathable". Others may differ. So, to answer your question about the difference to the wearer? Not much, if any, in my experience.

Also, I have not found your run of the mill Rayon or Silk to be particularly durable over the long haul.

 

[Undertow]

LINERS

Perfect, thanks you so much!!

 

[MisterGrey]

Anyone know where I can just order one? The site above requires a $28 minimum order, plus shipping.

 

[EggHead]

I hate plastic tops in the liners

So I cut them out. Just invert sweatband, pull out the liner (do not rip it out), then with your fingers separate liner and plastic and cut with fingernail scissors, the thicker ones. They are sharp and sturdy. Take your time not to poke through the liner (no big deal though).

 

[Woodfluter]

I don't like the plastic "tips" myself and find they make the hat appreciably hotter in warm weather, but can't bring myself to alter a vintage hat. For newer ones like Akubra, I've gradually cut every one of them out as described above. Using curved scissors with rounded ends as mentioned is a very good idea and what I've done, at least part of the time. It reduces the chances of cutting into the liner itself.

The oilskin tips don't seem to be as bad, but I might be fooling myself!

I don't use hair products, don't find the liner gets oily - but if it did, would rather clean it than bear the plastic.

 

[bumphrey hogart]

I hate the plastic liners too and always took them out,in fact I always imagined them to be designed to take out,I haven't even cut them but just gently pulled them.I took them to be part of the packaging,a means to keep a hat clean in a shop whilst lots of people with hair of variable cleanliness tried them on. I never thought that anyone would wear a hat with a bit of plastic against the top of their head,giving the top of the hat no chance to breathe.In fact I prefer hats with no liner at all,dries far faster when wet,no material to get grubby and come loose and far more breathable if you get a little warm.

 

[monbla256]

The plastic "tips" in the top of hats don't bother me and ....

... I sweat like a pig just about year round In fact, it keeps the top of my liner nice and stain free! Here's a link about RAYON, which is really NOT a synthetic material. It's made from wood fibers !

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-rayon.htm

 

[theinterchange]

I'm surprised that so many people find the plastic hot. [huh] I honestly can't tell a bit of difference between hats that have them, those which don't, and one of my vintages which has no liner at all. [huh] Just my experience with the issue.

If someone wants "cool"... wear straw. lol

Randy

 

[Undertow]

...Here's a link about RAYON, which is really NOT a synthetic material. It's made from wood fibers!

Technically, rayon is a synthetic material - it does not occur naturally. You cannot pluck a rayon leaf from a tree and you cannot harvest materials alone to create rayon. On the other hand, it is made from wood pulp and cotton linters (natural materials). The raw materials are converted into a solution and extruded through a jet to harden.

I think you mean to say rayon is not an entirely man-made fiber like polyester. Note that acetate is similar to rayon and is made from the same natural fibers.

Vintage hats, pre-30's and 40's, could have had silk satin linings. However, modern hats since at least the 50's moved to rayon linings, while others, such as Akubra I believe, are made from acetate. It's not that you couldn't get a custom made silk lining, but silk has a very high cost and thus it's not seen even in expensive, high quality hats.

 

[Mobile Vulgus]

Plastic

As to the plastic crown liners, I am not a big fan, either. They serve no purpose for me personally. I do not use hair treatments of any kind (never, never) and I also don't like the crinkly sound they make when the hat is handled.

If I never had another hat with a plastic crown liner I'd be fine with that. However, I am not so against them that I would pass a good hat at a good deal just because of the plastic liner.

So, I edge toward indifference n it.