Re-enacting.

[Wild Root]

Now that makes sense! Well said friend.

For the record, I never wanted to make war look glamorous. I know it's not and I pray to God on high that I will never have to be involved in the real McCoy but, taking part of a re-enactment gives a guy a small taste of what our grandparents or parents endured. Just a way to become closer to our family I feel and I have gained a new respect for veterans on both sides because of it.

=WR=

PS. Pirate re-enactors are funny indeed. I could never be one though, it's against my religion.

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

For those who think reenactors are sanitizing war and making seem glorious, I think the reverse is actually true. Obviously people don't get killed or wounded while reenacting, but everything else is intact.

In computer/video games, TV and the movies you have no sense of the intimacy and reality of fighting and of the weapons. In reenacting you have a very real sense of just how dangerous and monstrous war actually is. After seen a live-fire from one of our squad's MG34s it always astounds me that people had to willingly advance into the fire of such weapons. When I am reenacting Soviet, you realize that your life is basically worthless. To some extent this is true of any type of reenacting. When you reenact long enough you basically realize that the odds are that WW2 would probably have killed you.

 

[Wild Root]

Ever sit behind a bush (As a German soldier) and see a very real Sherman tank come around and then spot your position, and then you see the turret start to turn toward you! I know that nothing was going to kill me but still, it's scary never the less!

Hey Vlad, what kind of toys does your groups have? Any large vehicles?

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

My Russian group only has a GMC truck, my German group has a 45mm PAK gun, 20mm gun, two trucks, a halftrack and a hetzer plus various motorcycles.

 

[Wild Root]

Sweet man, sounds cool! Love to see some photos if you have'em!

=WR=

 

[Bebop]

You obiously don't know any body who re-enacts do you? You must think that people who do are a bunch of dweebs who have no lifes. I'm going to give it to you straight! Most of the re-enactors I know have served in the US service! They were over there in Iraq for rather long periods of time. They enjoy an occational weekend off to play a part in a historical setting, it's an excape from real life. All the guys I know have real lives! They have familys, and they have a hobby. They also own very rare and expecnive eqpiment like real WWII weppons carriers, tanks, jeeps, halftraks, motorbikes with sidecars.... The list goes on.

I have to say that you should know something about the hobby and the people who do it. No disrespect to you as a vet mind you but, before you start telling us who take a harmless hobby seriosly, I just wanted to let you know that lots of the guys who do this living history stuff are real nice guys, have lives and most of them have served our Country. I tell ya, it's nice to get a way for a weekend, be some one you're not, get lost in a time period you love, be with firends and build new friendships.

Sincerely,
Wild Root.

I know it's nitpicking but, there is nothing wrong with being a dweeb. I think I may be one once in a while. You can't deny that it is dweebish to reenact, can you? Some people would take what you described as "having a life" as in owning expensive WWII equipment, as not having much of a life. I see no harm done in reenacting. I just never had asked someone why they reenact and finally got an answer. Thank you. I lost twin brothers in Viet Nam and my nephew retuned from Iraq last fall minus his left leg so I have a rather biased, dark view of "playing war".

 

[Wild Root]

What I was trying to say is that people who don't have a quote on quote life can't afford to re-enact any battles of any kind. It's a hobby and gives people with no education of history a real life look at what their grandfathers went through. With out re-enactors, history would be limited just to books and black and white films. The stuff that puts most kids to sleep.

Some I talk to feel that dweebs are those who obsess them selves with things such as Star Trek and re-enacting to some extent. I have nothing against dweebs because I'm one of the biggest one's you'll ever meet!

I'm sorry for your loss and I can understand the dark look on war. I'm lucky, both my Grandfathers that served in WWII came home with out a scratch but, not every one's that lucky. I don't want to glorify war, it's not something that can be or should be glorified. I have a respect for it and I want to learn more about it so I may be closer to those who have served in WWII. If I join up today, I wouldn't be able to see all the cool equipment of WWII. I love history and the big toys of that era. I get a rush when ever I hear a B-25 fly over or a B-17! It?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s one thing to see a Sherman tank in a stale museum but, it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s another to see the real thing driving down a dirt path! It?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s such a cool thing to see what you have seen in so many movies and documentaries right in front of you, you smell the exhaust, you hear it thunder down the road, you can feel the ground shake as it passes by! I just love the 1940's and I love to get a living glimpse into history through re-enactments. I hope I'm making my self perfectly clear on this point because this record is getting extremely thin and I do believe there's a crack in it.

Now, when I take part in a WWII weekend it's not to glorify war or worship it, it's so I may learn more about history and share it with others. I'm sure if no one re-enacted any battles, people would be upset because they're loved ones legacy would be lost. As the years pile up, memories fade and this way to see a demonstration with the sounds and yells of a battle from the past in period uniforms, it can be a very emotional experience. It's not a bad thing to remember those who died in war, you remember how much you loved them and well, it carries on their memory.

Bottom line is that these large groups of men and women do this to preserve our heritage and history for future generations to come. I hope you can now understand a little better why people do it and why it's some what important.

Most sincerely,
Wild Root.

 

[MrBern]

Actually, I go as a press reenactor.
Usually some sort of combat photog.
No guns. Full combat uniform.
I love using my `30s cameras.
As a cityboy, I never realized I would love Hiking & sleeping outdoors so much.
Its really something to see an 80 or 90 yr old's spirits lifted by the sight of familiar uniforms. They open up & start to relate stories they hadnt thought of in decades. Its reallly interesting.

I first heard about the civilwar& Rev war reenactors in th 80s. I'm told a lot of them evolved from blackpowder gun clubs. For the bicentennial their expertise with artillery was instrumental to the celebrations televised to the whole country. A lot of us remember those cannons.
Thats quite a highpoint to share your hobby with so many people.

 

[USO Gal]

Why I reenact...

I work for the modern day USO and I re-enact WWII USO occasionally.

I re-enact for a few reasons.

I love the USO. Seriously, LOVE IT. The best things I have ever done in my life I have done working the USO. Serving the men and women of our armed forces is my passion. I hate to be dorkily patriotic but honestly, the USO is a wonderful organization that gives me (and all Americans) a great way to 'give back' to the men and women who serve in the military.

Because the USO was founded in 1940/1 and was so active in WWII and is still thought of by many as a WWII era thing... it is great to learn about it.

I am interested in history and love to socialize with others who love it - and reenacting is a good place to find them.

I love the educational features of re-enacting. One of the large events I go to the local schools all come to the camps on Friday for a field trip and tour of the camps and talks by the different re-enactors about WWII.

Most re-enactors I know do school presentations. Sort of a 'this is who I am this is what I wore this is what I did' kind of thing. For some kids reading about it and watching a film clip is enough... for some kids seeing someone dressed up as a soldier and talking about how much stuff has to be carried and how far they had to walk and how hard and dirty and scary it was makes a bigger impact.

I also love to talk to veterans who come to see the displays at re-enacting events. They are a font of information. Particularly when I get to meet someone who volunteered with the USO, or who remembers fondly the services of the USO during their service.

To be totally honest (and selfish), it makes me feel good and reenergizes me to go back to work at the USO. Because if these guys remember fondly the kindnesses from 60 years ago then that means that what I a doing with the USO today is likely going to be appreciated over time too.

I also view it as an opportunity to let people know that the USO is still there today serving our men and women in uniform (and their families!).

The funny thing is this - WWII USO and the modern USO have a lot in common. I look at pictures of USO Canteens from WWII and I look at our Airport center and the basics are still the same - food, entertainment (TV now instead of piano), writing room (Internet now instead of postcards) and just generally a 'home away from home' and a place to relax.

Because the USO hasn't changed all that much in some ways re-enacting is a bit of a busman?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s holiday. Because I am really just doing the same thing for re-enactors on the weekend that I do for active military in the week!

 

[Wild Root]

Very nice!

Welcome to the Fedora lounge and thank you for the great post!

You're doing one for the boys today and for the living history community.

Since you're such a fan of the USO, here is an image for ya.

=WR=

 

[MudInYerEye]

Actually, I go as a press reenactor.
Usually some sort of combat photog.
No guns. Full combat uniform.
I love using my `30s cameras.

That's really cool. My Grandpa Bob was a photographer for Stars and Stripes. He was all over the place between England, France, and Germany. On the ground and in the sky.

 

[RAAF]

"Varying shades of Grey"

"Varying shades of gray" was the term used by a friend of mine to try and explain reenacting or, to use his preferred term, living history.

Along with the rest of mainstream America, I also had a tough time trying to understand the reenacting concept and to a certain degree still don't entirely 'get it'.

When I asked my friend to explain reenacting he said he didn't know how to describe it. He further explained that he was more into living history than reenacting. My first thoughts were that they were the same thing. Upon further explaining, it would appear there are distinct differences with an awful lot of overlap between the two terms -- hence the varying shades of gray.

As a non-reenactor (too old and more comfortable being just a collector) my lay-persons understanding is that reenactors immerse themselves in the time period of interest and conduct themselves in a manner appropriate to the period. It revolves around broadening the personal understanding of the time period by attempting to simulate the experience to the highest degree possible. By its nature, I would think this would primarily encompass army units since reenacting air battles is impossible. Public interactions are minimal since the end-goal is to receate the experience.

My understanding of living history is that the participants share the same desire to better understand their area of interest but their activities would tend to be more towards public interaction. Such interaction can range from explaining what type of aircraft is being viewed to showing someone how a parachute harness works.

My interactions with either of these mindsets is limited.

As far as the reenactors are concerned, I think they do add something to the airshows I've been to. The Reading WW2 Weekend in PA is a pretty unique experience since you can see these two philosophical mindsets in action. I've seen one group of brit air force guys who go about their business seemingly oblivious to the five thousand spectators around them while another brit air force group is readily interacting with the spectators a mere 10 feet away.

I do find that the reenactors, by their presence, to lend a period feel to the air shows I've been to. The airplanes are still the primary draw for me but I must admit that a pilot in the photo, properly attired, makes a pretty good picture!

I still don't entirely get it but I also don't get people that collect stamps or keep alligators as pets! To each his own, I suppose :cheers1:

 

[airfrogusmc]

RAAF Well put. Kinda wraps up my feeling on the subject too....

 

[MrBern]

That's really cool. My Grandpa Bob was a photographer for Stars and Stripes. He was all over the place between England, France, and Germany. On the ground and in the sky.

You should check out AndyRooney's book, My War. A really interesting autobio of his WWII experiences & time with Star&Stripes.

 

[ShanghaiJack]

Yippee

WWII: RAF, & USAAC/AAF
Vietnam: 5th SFG [A]: MAC V SOG, and Project Delta.

Tails Up!
SJ

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

"Varying shades of gray" was the term used by a friend of mine to try and explain reenacting or, to use his preferred term, living history.

Along with the rest of mainstream America, I also had a tough time trying to understand the reenacting concept and to a certain degree still don't entirely 'get it'.

As a reenactor myself, I would say you have generally the right idea but there are some crucial additional points. Reenacting is indeed about totally immersing yourself in the time period and you are right that it really is not a spectator hobby. Reenactors usually greatly prefer there to be no "public" spectators at all. Doing airshows, muster days, etc is usually seen as a good chance to possibly pick up some new recruits, drink some beer and that's about it. It is often hard to get reenactors to even come to public events and airshows because they are usually full of farbs and you lose the feeling of immersion as soon as you see the first overweight tourist wearing sweatpants and a fannypack.

Real reenactors are always doing living history. The big distinction in activities between reenactors is between combat types and living history types. Combat types primarily come out to shoot blanks and play war. They are interested in guns and are disappointed if they don't get to shoot a lot during an event. If an event doesn't have any combat, they might not show up at all. Living history types are usually also interested in combat, but have a broader view and enjoy living like the person in the time period they recreate. With WW2 reenacting for instance, this involves things like building authentic trenchlines and buildings on a site, learning the language of the nation they "fight" for, sitting around playing cards with other soldiers during downtime, and cooking authentic food in a trench while on guard duty. These activities can't really be done at all in a public setting.

The people who only do public battles, hanger dances, airshows and the like, including basically all the aircrew/pilot "reenactors" I would not call reenactors at all. Simply having a proper uniform and kit does not make you a reenactor. This sort of person might be called a "living history teacher" or simply a collector who likes wearing the uniform. This is because there basically is no way to reenact WW2 aircrew, or U-boat crew, etc. The best you can usually can hope to do is kit-up and stand in front of someone's WW2 airplane at an airshow.

 

[MrBern]

maakies

an illustrated jab at reenacting

http://www.maakies.com/archive/m13.html

 

[Wild Root]

Vladimir Berkov, well said! I'm not a re-enactor my self (have been to one battle only) but would like to get into it more soon as I can afford it.

Vladimir summed it up rather well. Those who wear uniforms (I'm included in this) to dances and air shows are more of living historians to demonstrate how it was worn. Also, to give the collector a chance to wear what he has and enjoys it for a day or two.

I recall a night that I went down to an event called "Marching Through History" and it happens once a year. A friend of mine has a full US WWII field kitchen and all the kit! He also has an original field tent with an original gas powered generator to power the original lamps in his tent and the original WWII V-disk record player and speaker. I sat there with my friend and several others who were in heavy WWII US over coats and proper kit wile my friend cooked us an authentic meal from scratch on his kitchen. It was cold that night and what he cooked was just what the ol' doc ordered! Sitting there with only a few light bulbs burning, the sound of Glenn Miller's band of the AAF on a V-Disk playing, the smell of chow and eating the chow and being in an all vintage encampment was my time machine! I swear, I felt like I really transported for a few hours till the generator ran out of gas and I had to hop into my modern car to go to the station and fill up the tank.

Any way, I'm sure the world could live just fine with out re-enactors but, I know I couldn't live with out living history. It has truely touched a part of my life for the better.

Vladimir, good points made comrade.

=WR=

PS. For some of those here, you may want to check out the other thread about re-enacting
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=6315 The photos tell much of the fun and the reason why so many like it and do it!

 

[MrBern]

this article is a couple years old...

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/28/automobiles/28MILI.html?ex=1138770000&en=40ad15e732b67db1&ei=5070

 

[MrBern]

Post SuperBowl Reenactor bashing.

Dont know if any of you caught Grey'sAnatomy after the SuperBowl but here's the scoop.

All week long it was advertised w/ a suspenseful commercial calling for a CodeBlack in th hospital.
Most of the viewers & som of the characters were unfamiliar w/ the code. Its for a bomb or explosive.

I assumed it would be some butch terrorist plot to get football viewers interested, but Noooooo:
A mysterious sucking chest wound turns out ot be .....a bazooka misfire by some reenactors!
Wife is enraged at how this pal has gotten her hubby into....re-enacting! 'Who reenacts WWII???"

Yes, they built an M9A1 bazooka & shell to spec in th garage & when it misfired, the dummy didnt stand clear.
Bomb squad called in cuz, "It could blow up th whole hospital!!!" Doctors running for their lives, EMTs panicking & fleeing drama drama drama.
Th drama to be continued....

I'm annoyed. I kinda feel that it makes th whole hobby into the latest media whipping boy for idiot warmonger gunnuts. Its one thing to use Civil Wart as comedic relief for sibling rivalry on EverybodyLoveRaymond, But building explosives & endangering the public???

It was a great episode, but I really didnt enjoy the fantasy impression of reenactors naively breaking a federal law. From what I've encountered, reenactors are all about safety.
HAd it been a more realistic accident...maybe run over by a jeep, or tank or even burnt by a flamethrower, I coudl accept it.

anyone else catch it?