Re-enacting.

[PrettySquareGal]

It really doesn't offend me more than I just don't get it. I mean if you want a REAL life go live it and be a real hero and maybe some day someone will re-enact your heroics. Recruitment is down right now.

Well stated.

 

[scotrace]

My 2 Cents

Some (if not most) of the re-enactors take their role very seriously indeed. This certainly applies to some of our members here. It doesn't matter if their interest lies in the American Revolution, The US Civil War, or WWI or WWII, or, I assume, re-enactors of the Napoleonic Wars. For some, it is almost as though they are channeling those who served and perished in the Real Thing. I find it fascinating.
A friend was a member of the local Civil War group and he eventually dropped out of it because the leadership was so completely devoted and "retentive" about authenticity.
I can watch newsreels and see what the Second World War looked like. Heck, I can watch Saving Private Ryan and I'm almost there in person. But only from re-enactors can I learn through demonstration that a certain piece of kit was carried and used in thus-and-such a way. In the case of much earlier wars, there aren't many other opportunities to see firsthand the surgeon's amputation tools, the soldier's shave kit being used, or observe exactly how one acheives the proper fit of a pair of breeches. And where else can a person see exactly, precisely how a redskin shearling jacket is to be worn and what pieces of equipment go outside it or inside it. Photographs can only tell us so much.
At a very base level, it's a social activity. Just like a gathering on the Queen Mary or in a London Pub of people who want to compare bi-swing backs or spectator colors or pincurls. A gathering of like-minded people with an intense passion for their interests who jump at the chance to commune and talk and share and learn.
Each Memorial Day (US), a ceremony is held at my city's oldest cemetery, where the dead of all wars since 1860 sleep. Separate ceremonies are held by the VFW and others for each war represented in the cemetery. By far, the most moving ceremony is done by the Civil War re-enactors. They choose a name from a stone and do the homework. The man's biography is read aloud. Where he lived, how many siblings, where and how he died, and as much personal detail as possible is provided. Making the man human keeps his memory alive, and gives him a kind of immortality.
I wouldn't want to be a re-enactor. But I greatly admire those who do it.
Hey man, I'm just here for the spiff clothes.

 

[Baggers]

Very well put, Scotrace. I've been agonizing over how to respond to this thread, but you stated my views precisely. Thank you.

Cheers! :cheers1:

 

[Section10]

True enough, scotrace. War is history and must be remembered and I suppose re-enactments are innocent enough. There was much heroism and sacrifice to be honored but war itself is not a glorious thing. Nations may require it at times but it ought to be viewed as an extremely unpleasant task that needs doing now and then. Kind of like cleaning out the septic tank. I suppose though, if it was promoted like that, recruitments would drop off considerably.

 

[Lauren]

For gals it's cool because it's women's history. We get a chance to do what some of our grandmothers were doing, and that's not often portrayed in the history books. Besides, we gals can do USO as well, so it's not all combat and nursing.

 

[Lauren]

And another thing I just thought of from the perspective of someone interested in starting:

It gives one the opportunity to meet people who are interested in history, and it seems that that can often include values of that time period. In other words, it is an environment to meet new friends that need not involve things that would jeapordize me morals. It brings people of similar passions together. That can be true of any club or society, I suppose, but I would rather faux warfare than bar hopping.

 

[cneil]

American Civil War

I do American Civil War.

1st. U.S. Co. A. Artillery Regement.
and
79th. N.Y. Cameron Highlanders.

I also do the 1st. U.S. Draggons, Co. K
And Civilan Black Smith from the time of Western Exspansion 1854.

And Latest one, Napolionic Wars. 1808 to 1815
His Majesty's 93rd. Regement of Foot, The Sutherland Higlanders.

I has lead to a lot of learning.
It is Great.
To see what it was like to see a long grey line advancing towd you coming out of the mist of Black Powder smoke, The Noise, the Flames, the Heat.

And we only do this for a day or two and No one dies.
It was both the Most exciting Adventure and the Most terrifing event of there life.

It is also about learning the things of every day life.
Sleeping, Cooking, Repair of Uniforms....

I know about the Deaths. My 5th. Great Grand Father and 2 of his brothers where all killed in the Civil War.
My 5th. Great Grand Father was "Pressed" in to service out in the field as he was plowing the field to prepare for planting, never even got to say good by to the Wife and Kids. They did not even know what had happend to him, that evening the Hource came back to the house by them self.

6 months later they recived a letter telling them what had happened and that he was dieing in the N.Y. Sanatorium in Washington D.C.
He would Die befor my 5 Great Grand Mother Arrived to see him.
A Wife and 5 kids under 16.

"Cuimhnich air na daoine bho _ d' thainig thu"
Remember those you come from

"Là á Bhlàir's math na Càirdean"
Friends are good in the day of battle
(On the memorial stone of the 51st Highland Division at St Valery)

 

[The Wingnut]

Allow me to stretch a little here...

I think I'm getting a feel for the perspective of those who 'don't get it'. To them, war is something to be eliminated from the human experience, a monstrosity(which I won't deny), the lowest undertaking of humankind. It's something which is so unappealing and horrific that to dwell on it in any capacity is unpleasant for them.

That said, it's difficult from their perspective to understand those who still see war as a horrible thing but accept it as a part of the human experience. Those who reenact have an inquisitive mind, wish to know the how and why down to the tiny details to the point that to best understand they place themselves, as closely as they can, in the shoes of those who experienced it. Scotrace said it best, you won't see how the shaving kit was used, the tiny pieces of daily life working together. We can't travel back in time, so this is how people see it firsthand, with the obvious caveat that it's not a complete picture, nor would you want it to be.

No, it's not realistic and has shades of 'playing soldier', 'cops and robbers', so forth. It is a hobby, but it extends far deeper than that.

Personally, I concentrate on the USAAF side of things mostly because of my passion for aviation, but also because I'm not up for running through the woods, firing blanks, getting muddy, tired, sweaty. If I'm going to do that, I'd rather there be a genuine danger and purpose(beyond living history) to it...I'd have joined the Marines when they were calling me every week if I'd wanted that, and I don't. I did chose to serve, however, and I will get some small taste of it in training, and during deployments.

I engage in other kinds of living history, mostly victorian era, and don't view that as realistic at all. I do it more for fun and to spend time with my girlfriend, although I've gained more of an appreciation for the history of that era(which is the point of living history).

Grasping at the base issue, it's how war is viewed- a fact of life, something to be understood and accepted but not celebrated, or something so horrific and disturbing that as little time as possible should be spent thinking about it, and efforts should be made to eliminate it.

 

[cneil]

Allow me to stretch a little here...

Wingnut, BRAVO, I think you have manage to explain the differance in Point of view so that each side can understand.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Allow me to stretch a little here...

I think I'm getting a feel for the perspective of those who 'don't get it'. To them, war is something to be eliminated from the human experience, a monstrosity(which I won't deny), the lowest undertaking of humankind. It's something which is so unappealing and horrific that to dwell on it in any capacity is unpleasant for them.

That said, it's difficult from their perspective to understand those who still see war as a horrible thing but accept it as a part of the human experience. Those who reenact have an inquisitive mind, wish to know the how and why down to the tiny details to the point that to best understand they place themselves, as closely as they can, in the shoes of those who experienced it. Scotrace said it best, you won't see how the shaving kit was used, the tiny pieces of daily life working together. We can't travel back in time, so this is how people see it firsthand, with the obvious caveat that it's not a complete picture, nor would you want it to be.

No, it's not realistic and has shades of 'playing soldier', 'cops and robbers', so forth. It is a hobby, but it extends far deeper than that.

Personally, I concentrate on the USAAF side of things mostly because of my passion for aviation, but also because I'm not up for running through the woods, firing blanks, getting muddy, tired, sweaty. If I'm going to do that, I'd rather there be a genuine danger and purpose(beyond living history) to it...I'd have joined the Marines when they were calling me every week if I'd wanted that, and I don't. I did chose to serve, however, and I will get some small taste of it in training, and during deployments.

I engage in other kinds of living history, mostly victorian era, and don't view that as realistic at all. I do it more for fun and to spend time with my girlfriend, although I've gained more of an appreciation for the history of that era(which is the point of living history).

Grasping at the base issue, it's how war is viewed- a fact of life, something to be understood and accepted but not celebrated, or something so horrific and disturbing that as little time as possible should be spent thinking about it, and efforts should be made to eliminate it.

Actually, that's not my perspective at all. My husband is a former Marine who has been to war and I was married to him while he was still active duty. I KNOW about war, but I will never pretend to really know what it's like to be in a war, or shot at, or lose my friends, or kill someone. To say that those of us that don't "get" the re-enactment as a way to understand the realities of war is kind of silly. In fact airfrogusmc is a former Marine- wouldn't he know first hand? I didn't see him denying anything, in fact he rose to the occasion by serving in the Marines. I see the absence of the real details of war in re-enactments as being more representative of denying that war means people kill and are killed. It's not just about clean shaves and sleeping in tents.

I've read in a few posts that re-enactments help history from repeating itself. I don't see how that can be if the brutal realities of the battlefield are elminated. I think it's the people who have been there that really get it.

Again, I am repeating that I see some educational value in re-enactments, even social, and hey that's really cool! But I think it's only fair to acknowledge, to those who really HAVE been to war, that re-enactments will never be the same. THAT is the point I've been disputing.

It's OK that we don't agree on this. I just won't be re-enacting any time soon, unless it's USO stuff.

 

[cneil]

Life in the 1860's

I Know, I am probaly the only one here who is not doing WWII who is Re-Enacting.

It is basicly the Same for All Ages.

Learn History, Hounor are Ancestor, and have a good time with friend with simalar intrest.

The Best time is after the "Modern Civilians" Leave.
The Cooking on the Camp fier, The Dance in the Evening.
The Waking in the Morning with the thin haze of cook fier smoke and the smell of Bacon cooking in the frying pan and a cup of strong coffee.
It is as close as we get to Time Travel.

The people are polite, Intresting...
It is hard to return to 2006 after a weekend in 1862.

 

[cneil]

It is all a very "Santatized" version.

I do belive that most of us reconize that this is all a very "Santatized" version.

We at best can only achive a small essence of what it might have been like.

Except for the exstrem "Powder Burnners", I see no problum.
Most of us do quite a bit of research on our eras.
And we have a feel of it like some in accademia do not.


It is like some one from the SCA ( Society for Creative Anachrisims)
Onece said " WE like the Medival Ages but we leve out the Black Plague" " The Plague just was not much fun"

 

[The Wingnut]

Again, I am repeating that I see some educational value in re-enactments, even social, and hey that's really cool! But I think it's only fair to acknowledge, to those who really HAVE been to war, that re-enactments will never be the same. THAT is the point I've been disputing.

I think we're dealing too much in absolutes here.

I'll agree immediately that there's no way to understand the reality of combat without having experienced it firsthand. I've already acknowledged that reenactments don't come anywhere close to actual combat, numerous times...it's even less realistic than paintball(and yes, I've played paintball). Someone who engages in living history with the goal to 'experience' combat has some pretty serious issues, and shouldn't be participating at all. The point of reenactment is educational, not just for the onlooker but for the participant as well, and not in terms of combat, but the overall picture.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

I think we're dealing too much in absolutes here.

I agree- I was responding to the absolutes you presented about those of us that had some issues with re-enacting:

"To them, war is something to be eliminated from the human experience, a monstrosity(which I won't deny), the lowest undertaking of humankind. It's something which is so unappealing and horrific that to dwell on it in any capacity is unpleasant for them."

 

[The Wingnut]

Hence my statement. I should've tempered that by saying it was an extreme example.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Hence my statement. I should've tempered that by saying it was an extreme example.

Gotcha.

 

[Wild Root]

It really doesn't offend me more than I just don't get it. I mean if you want a REAL life go live it and be a real hero and maybe some day someone will re-enact your heroics. Recruitment is down right now.

You obiously don't know any body who re-enacts do you? You must think that people who do are a bunch of dweebs who have no lifes. I'm going to give it to you straight! Most of the re-enactors I know have served in the US service! They were over there in Iraq for rather long periods of time. They enjoy an occational weekend off to play a part in a historical setting, it's an excape from real life. All the guys I know have real lives! They have familys, and they have a hobby. They also own very rare and expecnive eqpiment like real WWII weppons carriers, tanks, jeeps, halftraks, motorbikes with sidecars.... The list goes on.

I have to say that you should know something about the hobby and the people who do it. No disrespect to you as a vet mind you but, before you start telling us who take a harmless hobby seriosly, I just wanted to let you know that lots of the guys who do this living history stuff are real nice guys, have lives and most of them have served our Country. I tell ya, it's nice to get a way for a weekend, be some one you're not, get lost in a time period you love, be with firends and build new friendships.

Sincerely,
Wild Root.

 

[Serial Hero]

I beleave that re-enacting does have it's place, but here's something to think about;

In fifty or sixty years, will our grandchildren be re-enacting Desert Storm, Afghanistan, or the current war in Iraq?

 

[Wild Root]

I have an answer for you.

The answer is yes. I say this because there are groups that I have seen are re-enacting conflicts later then Vietnam. In maybe only 30-40 years we'll see groups emerge re-enacting these later battles.

For those who aren't into the history of war, there is a group that re-enact the 1600's and they are called the... PIRATES! Yes, there are guys here in So Cal that dress like pirates and study the history of Pirates. Now, to me that's interesting and well, since "Pirates of the Caribbean" came out, it's funny to see all these X-bikers or, current bikers make outfits and tote muskets, cutlasses and speak with an Arrr in front of every word. They even have a real canon they'll fire at living history events.

I'm not sure there is any noble or honorable attributes to re-enacting the life of a Pirate but, it's a fantasy for some. They sit around drinking rum, cursing, getting it on with their girlfriends and there you have a Pirate re-enactor.

=WR=

 

[Section10]

For those who aren't into the history of war, there is a group that re-enact the 1600's and they are called the... PIRATES! Yes, there are guys here in So Cal that dress like pirates and study the history of Pirates. Now, to me that's interesting and well, since "Pirates of the Caribbean" came out, it's funny to see all these X-bikers or, current bikers make outfits and tote muskets, cutlasses and speak with an Arrr in front of every word. They even have a real canon they'll fire at living history events.

I'm not sure there is any noble or honorable attributes to re-enacting the life of a Pirate but, it's a fantasy for some. They sit around drinking rum, cursing, getting it on with their girlfriends and there you have a Pirate re-enactor.

=WR=

That must be funny!

I'm not against re-enactments. If someone wants to re-enact go right ahead with my blessings.

However there seems to be a parallel thread here about the philosophical acceptance of war.
'Not getting it' can be applied to either side depending on which side of the fence you happen to be on. It's not about getting it, but more a matter of perspective.
I can accept the inevitability of war but I cannot accept the actual event as such. Sort of like I can accept the inevitability of my death. I can even prepare for it. But I cannot accept death itself even though there may be great virtue in it. It remains an enemy.
War is like that. I speak from experience and from an attempt to reconcile experience to Scripture. All human events are a part of the human experience whether for good or bad. And even the bad ones are inevitable. But not all are acceptable.
Most people don't go to war for selfish reasons and to honor their service is commendable. But war itself is an inglorious thing. It speaks of the inability of humans to resolve their differences outside of force. All conflict, all argument, all hatred, all war and all violence has been justified by someone at the right time. From the F. L. to the gulags. From children in a playground to 9-11.
War may be necessary, but human failure and human frailty are woven into the very fabric of it.