Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat

[lkbenson@comcas]

I've been following this post for quite a few months and thought I would confirm the green corduroy pockets mentioned earlier.

Hope this helps.

 

[Peacoat]

Thanks for showing the "green" in your 1966 coat. First one I have seen.

 

[Frogsmile]

That's exactly the same as the one I have even down to the label, except mine has the usual black buttons with anchors.

 

[Frogsmile]

Thanks for posting the background on the materials used in the peacoats; most enlightening.

I am, however, confused by the description of your coat and your conclusion that it is a 1969 coat. You indicated that there were two rows of stitching on the sleeves and corduroy lining in the pockets. To the best of my knowledge the last year for two rows of stitching on the sleeves was 1966. The last year for corduroy pockets* was 1967.

Perhaps you could post a picture of the tag, or quote it exactly as it is written. I am thinking that your coat would be no later than 1966. A picture of the tag, or a quote would give me a good idea of the year.

____

*Most of the corduroy pockets were light brown in color. One Forum member posted a picture of a black corduroy lining. This is the first I have heard of a dark green lining. Most interesting.

Sorry, I inverted the last digit of the date by mistake, I meant 1966 (I should have checked your earlier post as that is how I knew). Many thanks for all your info. Label reads: COAT, MAN'S, WOOL KERSEY DSA-100-3793 Size 44 8405-268-8617 100% WOOL
Incidentally, there is no 'Long', 'Regular' or 'Short' size designation. When did that start?

 

[Peacoat]

I have a few peacoats in the short "S" version for my wife, and I believe there is "L" version, but I don't think anything is marked as "R". I think the short version has been around for a long time. The ones I have for my wife are 60's and 70's models.

The buttons on Ikbenson's coat are probably the standard black buttons with a reflection from the flash making them appear as shiny metallic buttons. There have only been two types of buttons going back to the beginning of memory*: variations on the standard black buttons, and the pewter colored buttons that came in during Admiral Zumwolt's tenure.

The pewter buttons were required after July 1, 1975 (1976?) and lasted until the mid 80's (or perhaps 1983?). I have question marks by these years as I have received conflicting reports on the dates, and just am not sure of the exact year. Really makes no difference in dating, though, as the contract number in those years has the date embedded therein.

_____

*Early 1900's

 

[Frogsmile]

Many thanks. I can see now that the standard (or Regular) size has no suffix and it is only those beyond the norm, i.e. 'Short' and 'Long' that are marked in such away, which makes sense. I am 6' 2" with a long arm and yet the strandard 44 fits me fine. This fits in with my experience in other clothing that American Regular sizes generally fit a 6 foot man and it is only those really tall (perhaps 6' 4" and taller) who require a 'Long', or as is now often used, 'Tall' size.

I will be interested to know from Ickbensen if his buttons are plastic or black painted alloy.

 

[brownbuffalo]

New to this site, and have found this thread so interesting and educational. I'm currently looking for a coat, so I will definitely be back for some feedback.

Thank you all!

 

[Peacoat]

Many thanks. I can see now that the standard (or Regular) size has no suffix and it is only those beyond the norm, i.e. 'Short' and 'Long' that are marked in such away, which makes sense. I am 6' 2" with a long arm and yet the strandard 44 fits me fine. This fits in with my experience in other clothing that American Regular sizes generally fit a 6 foot man and it is only those really tall (perhaps 6' 4" and taller) who require a 'Long', or as is now often used, 'Tall' size.

I will be interested to know from Ickbensen if his buttons are plastic or black painted alloy.

Whatever the buttons are, I haven't seen them before. They aren't the standard black plastic, and they aren't the pewter buttons of the 70s/80s. My only explanation is that they are an "after market" accessory. I just don't think this type of button was ever on an issued peacoat. Maybe someone else can enlighten us.

 

[Frogsmile]

I have a few peacoats in the short "S" version for my wife, and I believe there is "L" version, but I don't think anything is marked as "R". I think the short version has been around for a long time. The ones I have for my wife are 60's and 70's models.

The buttons on Ikbenson's coat are probably the standard black buttons with a reflection from the flash making them appear as shiny metallic buttons. There have only been two types of buttons going back to the beginning of memory*: variations on the standard black buttons, and the pewter colored buttons that came in during Admiral Zumwolt's tenure.

The pewter buttons were required after July 1, 1975 (1976?) and lasted until the mid 80's (or perhaps 1983?). I have question marks by these years as I have received conflicting reports on the dates, and just am not sure of the exact year. Really makes no difference in dating, though, as the contract number in those years has the date embedded therein.

*Early 1900's

A minor point, but having looked back through the preceding posts there are some labels mentioned as 'Regular' so maybe there was a specific period when Short, Regular and Long was used for sizing.

 

[Frogsmile]

Whatever the buttons are, I haven't seen them before. They aren't the standard black plastic, and they aren't the pewter buttons of the 70s/80s. My only explanation is that they are an "after market" accessory. I just don't think this type of button was ever on an issued peacoat. Maybe someone else can enlighten us.

The anchor appears to be the standard US model but the buttons are not pierced with the usual 4holes for stitching, which would seem to indicate that they are affixed to the coat by a metal loop on the reverse side. That is a common military practice for 'dress' items of uniform so maybe this was a more 'senior' enlisted man's coat, although that is pure supposition.

 

[Peacoat]

The anchor appears to be the standard US model but the buttons are not pierced with the usual 4holes for stitching, which would seem to indicate that they are affixed to the coat by a metal loop on the reverse side. That is a common military practice for 'dress' items of uniform so maybe this was a more 'senior' enlisted man's coat, although that is pure supposition.

I noticed the way the buttons were attached also.

No, this isn't a Chief's coat (Chief, Senior and Master). Once they make CPO, their issue coat is a "bridge coat," which is the same as an officer's coat. The buttons are the same style as the pewter button, but they are gold, like the officers' buttons. Their peacoat is then relegated to the back of the closet, sold, or given away.

 

[Peacoat]

When I sent the above message I couldn't find a picture of an officer/chiefs' button. Now I have located a picture and it is depicted below:

No question that this isn't the button on Ikbenson's coat.

 

[Dinerman]

This just sold on ebay as part of a named lot of WWI navy uniforms. I've never seen one with pockets like that. What do you make of it?

 

[Peacoat]

Most interesting. That is way beyond my area of expertise! The flapped pockets are unusual as are what appear to be handwarmer pockets at the chest level. May truly be a WWI peacoat.

 

[Frogsmile]

Most interesting. That is way beyond my area of expertise! The flapped pockets are unusual as are what appear to be handwarmer pockets at the chest level. May truly be a WWI peacoat.

In an earlier post someone showed a link to the US Navy regulations from around 1890-1900 and this style of Pea Coat was shown quite clearly. Interestingly it is very much like the British Royal Navy 'Reefer Jacket' of the same period and you can still see similar coats like it in the UK to this day.

 

[Frogsmile]

When I sent the above message I couldn't find a picture of an officer/chiefs' button. Now I have located a picture and it is depicted below:

No question that this isn't the button on Ikbenson's coat.

Thanks for sight of the Chiefs/Officers button, very interesting.

 

[soulquentin]

a new one...

I got this one from ebay, won the auction for 27$!!! it's a very nice coat in like new condition, except that there's a small thread in the sleeve lining...the last picture shows the double stitching on the sleeves. the pockets are lined with beige corduroy. the label reads:

U.S. NAVY
100% WOOL
Name: ...
Service No. ...
Contract No. DA-36-243-QM(CTM) 11460-C-62
Size 36 R

The Front has 8 buttons, 6 showing.

I'd be glad, if someone could help me date this coat.

cheers,

soulquentin

 

[Peacoat]

1965 was the last year for the "US NAVY" tag. From the contract number it appears to be a 1962 coat. I wasn't aware that they started dating the contracts until 1966, but it appears they did on this contract. I learn something every day.

 

[soulquentin]

1962 is what I thougt, too. But I wasn't sure because in this thread I read that dating started 1966. so many different types of peacoats around...
cheers,
soulquentin

 

[NonEntity]

Whew!

Finally made it through every single post in this thread, but I still don't know what I kind of pea coat I have, or its date of manufacture, or much about it at all.

Don't have a photo, but here's a detailed description:

I bought the coat in 1973 or '74 in a military surplus store. This was the transitional era of such stores' offering old and new authentic military-issue merchandize, as well as ersatz military items--stuff made to look like the real McCoy but not genuine military issue. So I might have a U.S. Navy pea coat or a knock-off.

On the outside:

The coat is extremely dark navy, virtually black, constructed of very thick, heavy, somewhat coarse wool, possibly with a small amount of something else blended in.

The stand-up collar measures 5 inches wide at the neck and tapers to 4 inches at the notches. The double breasts are reversible, meaning there are buttons and buttonholes on both sides so that it can be worn "left handed" or "right handed."

There are ten buttons--two columns of five each--counting the two "hidden" ones beneath the collar. There is no "inside" button, and one is not needed because the material is thick and a bit stiff and the breasts only overlap, when buttoned, about 6 inches.

The buttons are black plastic, with 4 holes, 1 1/4-inch in diameter, embossed with the anchor-and-rope emblem.

The two exterior pocket openings have an ever-so-slight slant from the vertical and are lined with an off-white flannel.

There is a single 8-inch center vent in line with the seam that extends all the way up to the neck.

On the inside:

The coat has a black acetate lining throughout the body and sleeves.

The one interior pocket on the left breast is lined in the same off-white flannel as the exterior pockets.

Unfortunately, the white label centered in the neck I remember being there and writing my name on is gone, leaving only a black rectangle of stitching, which still holds the seperate "36" (in red numerals) size tag, as well as another tag reading "Dry clean only. Do not use petroleum solvents or the coin operated method of dry cleaning."

In the neck is a black leather loop to hang the coat by that reads, in gold lettering, "SCHOTT BROS inc."

At the time it was purchased I was a 6' 1" 140-lb 9th-grader and wore a 39 Long European-cut sport jacket. So when I found the pea coats, I tried on a 40 that swallowed me and a 38 that was merely huge. So I got the 36, which was still big enough for a thick flannel shirt plus a bulky fisherman's turtleneck sweater beneath.

I loved this coat and wore the hell out of it for many years. Of the many fond memories I have in it, among the best is when I hitch-hiked from Atlanta to New Orleans to see my girlfriend for Mardis Gras in 1978. It was a very early February Fat Tuesday that year, and cold and damp every day but one, when it was merely cold. We were outside partying most of the time for the whole week, but that trusty pea coat, suede Churchill Alpine hat, and heavy Vasque hiking boots kept me warm and dry.

I, of course, still have the coat, and although it's a tad tight and short now that I'm a 6' 2" 165-lb 42 Long, it makes a good coat for raking leaves or doing anything in the cold in which I don't care if my coat gets dirty.

Anyway, I would sure appreciate it if someone could tell me if this is an authentic U.S. Navy-issue pea coat, its approximate date of manufacture, and anything else pertinent about it.