trentstanton
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 72
Looks like:
Pit to pit: 19. ( Hope I measured it tight.). I'll have to measure it from the back
Arm length from shoulder seam: 24.5
Length from top of collar to bottom: 33
-
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Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat
- Thread starter Matt Jones
- Start date
Pit to pit: 19. ( Hope I measured it tight.). I'll have to measure it from the back
Arm length from shoulder seam: 24.5
Length from top of collar to bottom: 33
spotmark
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 58
Thanks. The size 44 I bought arrived today and it is too big for me. 42 is my size.
- Messages
- 6,453
- Location
- South of Nashville
No, follow my sizing instructions. Only measure from the front. Pull the material tight, release and measure. There is no reason to measure from the back of the coat.
I have to finally jump in and take a dive into this thread. Man, what an awesome forum and source of information I have found on here. I have finally made it through the entire thread and I just want to say thanks to everyone that's contributed…especially Peacoat. I thought I'd share my experience that got me here and help anybody out trying to get their first genuine peacoat.
I started looking for a nice looking peacoat several years ago. I had already gone down this path with purchasing a decent motorcycle jacket so my search naturally began and ended with Schott and their 740 series peacoats. At the time, Schott claimed to have ties to the original WWII peacoats so I gravitated to the 740 (740N). This was before Schott had the nice fit finder on their website. I went with my suit/sport coat size (41) and purchased both a 42 and 40 since I was in between sizes. I was so disappointed when they both arrived and found myself swimming in them. It was frustrating because I really appreciated the quality of the coats- nicer than 99% of what you would find in a retail or department store and they had the more traditional 8-button front. I was just turned off because I didn’t think I would find something in the fit I was looking for other than a cheap faddish knock-off so I stopped searching.
Fast forward several years later and I got the urge to scratch the peacoat itch again after being outside in some blustery weather when a more polished option than my trusted Carhartt jacket would have been more appropriate. I turned again to Schott and purchased 4 different coats to check sizes and styles: 740 (32 oz. Melton blend) in a 36 & 38, and 740C (24 oz. Melton blend w/leather trim) in a 40 & 42. The 740C is advertised as slimmer than the 740 (also labeled as 740N).
For reference I have an athletic build, 6’1”, 187 lbs, 32” waist, and 40.5” chest measured. I am not a small guy, but I am in shape.
The Schott sizing is all over the place. For the 740C I preferred the 40 over the 42, but the overall fit was unnatural- too tapered in the torso and the arms almost felt articulated (probably just due to stiffness). It was the skinny jeans of peacoats. It was nice and of high quality, but the leather trim wasn’t quite what I was going for and the heft of the 24 oz. wool was not as substantial as the 740’s 32 oz.
Speaking of…The 740 hit most of the marks for me. I felt this time around I had the sizing much more dialed in. The 38 fit with a bit of room for layering underneath, but I prefer a more traditional slimmer look (i.e. like you see in the old WWII pics). The 36 felt a lot better and less boxy. Having worn military uniforms in the Air Force and during my time as a cadet at VMI I feel like I have a good pulse on “how” these garments are supposed to fit and feel. Nevertheless, I kind of questioned whether I would wear the 740. It was a nice jacket, but the quilted lining seemed like overkill and added unnecessary bulk (although I understand now why it’s probably there thanks to this forum). The melton wool was also a little rough and I’d seen a lot of pictures of older pilled Schotts. The fit wasn’t 100% what I was looking for and I just questioned how often I would wear this coat, especially at $360 retail. So I turned to Google…”How should a peacoat fit?”, “Schott peacoat fit?”, etc…
Thankfully one of those searches turned me onto this exact thread. From here I found the PEACOAT DATING thread and the rest lead me onto a whole new different and exciting search/hunt of peacoats altogether. So much great info on different styles, 10-button & 8-button, Kersey vs. Melton, how to determine size, etc. I had always gravitated towards the WWII 10-button coats and I was amazed when I started finding pictures of these. So much character in the stitching around the collar and pockets…that kind of stuff can’t be mimicked or substituted.
I took down the P2P, Shoulder, Sleeve, and Length measurements of the Schott 36 since it fit pretty well and used that to benchmark my eBay search before returning it. I found a superb size 40 WWII coat from a seller in FL and snagged it for $240. The seller wouldn’t budge on $ because he’d been through the same struggles I had trying to locate it. When I received it, it was in Excellent condition and I was blown away by the quality and feel of the wool and the proportions of the coat. It was still just a little loose with most layers I would be wearing with it (at most a thicker flannel/chamois shirt), but I knew I was on the right path. Went back to eBay and found a “grail” what appears to be NOS Size 38 WWII peacoat in mint condition. Seller had it listed for $65 and I didn’t think twice. It was probably up for all of 30 minutes before I saw it. Thankfully the owner of the Size 40 messaged me back with his regrets for selling, so I gladly sent it back and told him to hold onto it lol. When I finally got the 38 WWII coat I was beyond excited. I don’t think it has ever been worn and it fits perfectly like a glove- exactly what I was looking for! It is very comparable in weight to my overcoat I had when I was at VMI so I knew it would keep me warm while still looking great. That first purchase was a little over a month ago.
Fast forward, I now have two WWII 8-button coats (both Size 38) and one 1962 6-button coat (Size 36 also in mint condition) with a coveted 1949 6-button coat (Size 36) on the way. The wool on all of my coats is in almost perfect condition- no moth damage. My other WWII coat shows a little more wear around the pockets, but I like the look of it. My seamstress repaired a buttonhole, and re-sewed and re-shanked all of the buttons for $55, which is slightly less than what I paid for it before shipping (another great late-night discovery). This one just has a little more character with its broken-in look than the others and will probably become my “daily driver” after bulletproofing it (she did sew one of the buttons through a pocket which I need to fix. For ~$120 all in, it’s a steal.
Some lessons on sizing I found helpful. To start with you need to really understand sizing, and no matter what you cannot rely on what the tag says. I bought a few more coats than the ones mentioned above and I took size measurements and wrote all of them down, even the ones I didn’t keep, so I could continue to make accurate purchase. As many have observed there is fluctuation between the sizes and some of what you end up with ultimately comes down to trial and error. My Size 38 WWII coat has almost the exact same measurements as my 1962 Size 36. Do not limit your search to just one size. If the seller doesn’t provide it, ask for at a minimum, the pit to pit (P2P) measurement taken with the garment laying flat and the shoulder to shoulder (S2S) measurement. I usually ask the seller to take the S2S measurement, “across the back where the top seam meets the sleeves”. I measured my chest at the widest point with a flexible tape at 40.5”. I need a P2P between 20-20.5”. I find the 21” is too large for my preference. Remember that as the coat drapes around your shoulders and chest there will be additional material or “give” in the coat to neatly hug your chest. The P2P is not the largest part of the chest for most, but it is a good indicator. Equally as important and not to be overlooked is the S2S width. Measuring as I stated above, I need a coat between 18.5-19.0”. I might be able to get away with 18.0”, but it’s not going to look as crisp and will feel too tight for most wear. Same thing above 19.0”. I found this out with a Size 38 1961 coat I returned that had a P2P of 21.0” and a shoulder to shoulder of 19.5”. Before you get started find your best fitting piece of outerwear or suit/sport coat and take the same measurements so that you can get in the right ballpark.
Another word of advice is that pictures don’t always do these coats justice. Some of these coats may look like they’re in rough shape, but a few strokes with a lint brush and they look great. I honestly don’t know why some of the sellers don’t invest in just cleaning them up a bit before they sell them, but I found a few really good ones most would have passed up because of the bad pictures. Just make sure you ask direct questions about the condition of the coat and if there’s moth damage. You might have to explain what that looks like. I also like to ask if there’s rips or holes in the liner. If the pictures do not show all of the buttons including those under the collar make sure you ask about those as well. Same goes for throat latches on the WWII coats.
As far as the price of these coats go, the most I’ve paid for one of the coats I kept was $100 before shipping, and that was for a mint 1962 6-button. Granted some of my purchases might have been outliers and I likely benefit from having a common size from the times these coats were made, but if you are patient and keep your searches broader you can find some great deals. There are a lot of “vintage” sellers who don’t know what they have or how to correctly categorize the coats. There are all sorts of ‘50’s and ‘60’s peacoats out there labeled as WWII. I’ve had luck engaging directly with the seller asking questions and showing interest. Some of them will accept offers even if there’s an open bid.
Just wanted to share my experience and offer up my thoughts. Now if anybody can help me out with some self-control advice so my collection stops growing…haha.
Schott 740 (Size 36)
Schott 740 (Size 36)
WWII (Size 38)
WWII (Size 38)
1962 (Size 36)
1962 (Size 36)
I started looking for a nice looking peacoat several years ago. I had already gone down this path with purchasing a decent motorcycle jacket so my search naturally began and ended with Schott and their 740 series peacoats. At the time, Schott claimed to have ties to the original WWII peacoats so I gravitated to the 740 (740N). This was before Schott had the nice fit finder on their website. I went with my suit/sport coat size (41) and purchased both a 42 and 40 since I was in between sizes. I was so disappointed when they both arrived and found myself swimming in them. It was frustrating because I really appreciated the quality of the coats- nicer than 99% of what you would find in a retail or department store and they had the more traditional 8-button front. I was just turned off because I didn’t think I would find something in the fit I was looking for other than a cheap faddish knock-off so I stopped searching.
Fast forward several years later and I got the urge to scratch the peacoat itch again after being outside in some blustery weather when a more polished option than my trusted Carhartt jacket would have been more appropriate. I turned again to Schott and purchased 4 different coats to check sizes and styles: 740 (32 oz. Melton blend) in a 36 & 38, and 740C (24 oz. Melton blend w/leather trim) in a 40 & 42. The 740C is advertised as slimmer than the 740 (also labeled as 740N).
For reference I have an athletic build, 6’1”, 187 lbs, 32” waist, and 40.5” chest measured. I am not a small guy, but I am in shape.
The Schott sizing is all over the place. For the 740C I preferred the 40 over the 42, but the overall fit was unnatural- too tapered in the torso and the arms almost felt articulated (probably just due to stiffness). It was the skinny jeans of peacoats. It was nice and of high quality, but the leather trim wasn’t quite what I was going for and the heft of the 24 oz. wool was not as substantial as the 740’s 32 oz.
Speaking of…The 740 hit most of the marks for me. I felt this time around I had the sizing much more dialed in. The 38 fit with a bit of room for layering underneath, but I prefer a more traditional slimmer look (i.e. like you see in the old WWII pics). The 36 felt a lot better and less boxy. Having worn military uniforms in the Air Force and during my time as a cadet at VMI I feel like I have a good pulse on “how” these garments are supposed to fit and feel. Nevertheless, I kind of questioned whether I would wear the 740. It was a nice jacket, but the quilted lining seemed like overkill and added unnecessary bulk (although I understand now why it’s probably there thanks to this forum). The melton wool was also a little rough and I’d seen a lot of pictures of older pilled Schotts. The fit wasn’t 100% what I was looking for and I just questioned how often I would wear this coat, especially at $360 retail. So I turned to Google…”How should a peacoat fit?”, “Schott peacoat fit?”, etc…
Thankfully one of those searches turned me onto this exact thread. From here I found the PEACOAT DATING thread and the rest lead me onto a whole new different and exciting search/hunt of peacoats altogether. So much great info on different styles, 10-button & 8-button, Kersey vs. Melton, how to determine size, etc. I had always gravitated towards the WWII 10-button coats and I was amazed when I started finding pictures of these. So much character in the stitching around the collar and pockets…that kind of stuff can’t be mimicked or substituted.
I took down the P2P, Shoulder, Sleeve, and Length measurements of the Schott 36 since it fit pretty well and used that to benchmark my eBay search before returning it. I found a superb size 40 WWII coat from a seller in FL and snagged it for $240. The seller wouldn’t budge on $ because he’d been through the same struggles I had trying to locate it. When I received it, it was in Excellent condition and I was blown away by the quality and feel of the wool and the proportions of the coat. It was still just a little loose with most layers I would be wearing with it (at most a thicker flannel/chamois shirt), but I knew I was on the right path. Went back to eBay and found a “grail” what appears to be NOS Size 38 WWII peacoat in mint condition. Seller had it listed for $65 and I didn’t think twice. It was probably up for all of 30 minutes before I saw it. Thankfully the owner of the Size 40 messaged me back with his regrets for selling, so I gladly sent it back and told him to hold onto it lol. When I finally got the 38 WWII coat I was beyond excited. I don’t think it has ever been worn and it fits perfectly like a glove- exactly what I was looking for! It is very comparable in weight to my overcoat I had when I was at VMI so I knew it would keep me warm while still looking great. That first purchase was a little over a month ago.
Fast forward, I now have two WWII 8-button coats (both Size 38) and one 1962 6-button coat (Size 36 also in mint condition) with a coveted 1949 6-button coat (Size 36) on the way. The wool on all of my coats is in almost perfect condition- no moth damage. My other WWII coat shows a little more wear around the pockets, but I like the look of it. My seamstress repaired a buttonhole, and re-sewed and re-shanked all of the buttons for $55, which is slightly less than what I paid for it before shipping (another great late-night discovery). This one just has a little more character with its broken-in look than the others and will probably become my “daily driver” after bulletproofing it (she did sew one of the buttons through a pocket which I need to fix. For ~$120 all in, it’s a steal.
Some lessons on sizing I found helpful. To start with you need to really understand sizing, and no matter what you cannot rely on what the tag says. I bought a few more coats than the ones mentioned above and I took size measurements and wrote all of them down, even the ones I didn’t keep, so I could continue to make accurate purchase. As many have observed there is fluctuation between the sizes and some of what you end up with ultimately comes down to trial and error. My Size 38 WWII coat has almost the exact same measurements as my 1962 Size 36. Do not limit your search to just one size. If the seller doesn’t provide it, ask for at a minimum, the pit to pit (P2P) measurement taken with the garment laying flat and the shoulder to shoulder (S2S) measurement. I usually ask the seller to take the S2S measurement, “across the back where the top seam meets the sleeves”. I measured my chest at the widest point with a flexible tape at 40.5”. I need a P2P between 20-20.5”. I find the 21” is too large for my preference. Remember that as the coat drapes around your shoulders and chest there will be additional material or “give” in the coat to neatly hug your chest. The P2P is not the largest part of the chest for most, but it is a good indicator. Equally as important and not to be overlooked is the S2S width. Measuring as I stated above, I need a coat between 18.5-19.0”. I might be able to get away with 18.0”, but it’s not going to look as crisp and will feel too tight for most wear. Same thing above 19.0”. I found this out with a Size 38 1961 coat I returned that had a P2P of 21.0” and a shoulder to shoulder of 19.5”. Before you get started find your best fitting piece of outerwear or suit/sport coat and take the same measurements so that you can get in the right ballpark.
Another word of advice is that pictures don’t always do these coats justice. Some of these coats may look like they’re in rough shape, but a few strokes with a lint brush and they look great. I honestly don’t know why some of the sellers don’t invest in just cleaning them up a bit before they sell them, but I found a few really good ones most would have passed up because of the bad pictures. Just make sure you ask direct questions about the condition of the coat and if there’s moth damage. You might have to explain what that looks like. I also like to ask if there’s rips or holes in the liner. If the pictures do not show all of the buttons including those under the collar make sure you ask about those as well. Same goes for throat latches on the WWII coats.
As far as the price of these coats go, the most I’ve paid for one of the coats I kept was $100 before shipping, and that was for a mint 1962 6-button. Granted some of my purchases might have been outliers and I likely benefit from having a common size from the times these coats were made, but if you are patient and keep your searches broader you can find some great deals. There are a lot of “vintage” sellers who don’t know what they have or how to correctly categorize the coats. There are all sorts of ‘50’s and ‘60’s peacoats out there labeled as WWII. I’ve had luck engaging directly with the seller asking questions and showing interest. Some of them will accept offers even if there’s an open bid.
Just wanted to share my experience and offer up my thoughts. Now if anybody can help me out with some self-control advice so my collection stops growing…haha.
Schott 740 (Size 36)
Schott 740 (Size 36)
WWII (Size 38)
WWII (Size 38)
1962 (Size 36)
1962 (Size 36)
Last edited:
- Messages
- 6,453
- Location
- South of Nashville
Thank you for your detailed report. One caveat though, is that we always discuss these coats with the number of buttons showing when the coat is buttoned.
So all WWII coats are referred to as 8 button coats (8 buttons showing) and all Post WWII coats are referred to as 6 button coats (6 buttons showing). This reduces confusion and tells us exactly what era the coat is from.
The way I like to refer to these coats is 6 buttons showing (for post WWII coats) and 8 buttons showing (for WWII coats). This eliminates all confusion and everyone is on the same unambiguous page.
So all WWII coats are referred to as 8 button coats (8 buttons showing) and all Post WWII coats are referred to as 6 button coats (6 buttons showing). This reduces confusion and tells us exactly what era the coat is from.
The way I like to refer to these coats is 6 buttons showing (for post WWII coats) and 8 buttons showing (for WWII coats). This eliminates all confusion and everyone is on the same unambiguous page.
spoonbelly1950
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 77
Looks pretty spiffy! I lucked out a few years ago and found a WWII coat in almost new condition. The buttons were still a little tight. It is also a size 46 which is extremely rare.
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spoonbelly1950
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 77
You would need a couple of other post WWII coats to compare the Kersey wool. 1949 should be a tinch thicker and feel slightly velvet like.
Thanks! I made the edits to alleviate any confusion!
spotmark
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 58
My 1949 coat arrived yesterday. As I had mentioned it is a size 44 and all my other coats are 42s. I thought I might be able to get away with it, but it is too big. I have located a size 42 and hope to make it mine.
I have to say, I was skeptical about the niceties of the 1949, but it does have a nice smooth finish. However, currently hanging in my office closet are a WWII coat (not the one I wear daily), the 1949, a 1950, and a 1966. I don't know if it's an anomaly, but the 1966 feels just as nice.
Overall, I prefer the trimmer fit of the eight button WWII coats.
Carry on.
I have to say, I was skeptical about the niceties of the 1949, but it does have a nice smooth finish. However, currently hanging in my office closet are a WWII coat (not the one I wear daily), the 1949, a 1950, and a 1966. I don't know if it's an anomaly, but the 1966 feels just as nice.
Overall, I prefer the trimmer fit of the eight button WWII coats.
Carry on.
Last edited:
trentstanton
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 72
The 1966 coat that I have definitely feels different from the 1945. Slightly thicker, bluer blue, and it's a different hand feel for sure. If that's what the 1949 coat feels like I wonder if they had a transition. Curious about a 1950s coat.
spotmark
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 58
My 1950 does feel like it has a little more texture to it than the 1949.
trentstanton
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 72
Might grab some macro shots of the wool later. Only have the one coat from 1945 to compare but it's definitely lighter and smoother wool.
trentstanton
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 72
trentstanton
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 72
I've worked it out to be a size 36, I just don't think this style is flattering on me. Lovely though
- Messages
- 6,453
- Location
- South of Nashville
The WWII versions were designed to be worn with all of the buttons closed, including the top button at the neck. In fact the regulations required that the top button be closed.
The sailors didn't like buttoning the top button and left it unbuttoned. This caused an unruly appearance at the neck. The Navy abhors an unruly appearance, so it designed the 6 button (showing) model. This version had a wide lapel that provided for a neater appearance, by far, than the WWII version.
So there is the history lesson of how the post WWII coat came to be.
trentstanton
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 72
Making my first attempt at replacing buttons. Any tips? I bought some strong waxed thread and watched a few videos. Be assured I'll still botch it. If so I'll take to my tailor.
- Messages
- 6,453
- Location
- South of Nashville
Don't sew through pockets. Sewing through the lining is OK. Use a backing button and don't forget the shank. I like to use nylon thread for the buttons.
Dudley
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 91
Thank you for sharing your journey. Mine is similar....for finding the right size. It is definitely trial an error. I too struggle, my chest is a 40 and waist 31, but the 36 jacket WW II jacket fits me best. I may have others altered.
Dudley
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 91
It is good to learn how to do it. It can get expensive. And every vintage jacket will need to be re-threaded, at least on the button up side. I am not good with removing lining, to install new buttons with the critical backing button. So I just take mine to the tailor. For three buttons, about $80. But he also fixes other loose seams and lining.
- Messages
- 6,453
- Location
- South of Nashville
If your chest measures a true 40" that is a two size drop. Are you able to wear anything other than a thin shirt underneath?
