Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat

[Peacoat]

@busstonedfx: Damage to the lining at the armholes is common and easily repaired. The buttonhole wear is easily repaired by a tailor with a buttonhole attachment. Plus it is hidden when the button is buttoned. Don't know what is going on with the collar, but the stitching won't be visible when the collar is down.

Hold on to the vintage Kersey so you can compare the two when the 1980 coat arrives. You will be surprised at the difference in quality of the two shells.

 

[busstonedfx]

okay, that's not a bad idea. gonna wait til the 80's 100% melton comes to compare and decide what to do with the kersey in 34r.. don't wanna do anything I regret! it's already on the way... my how I love the internet...

The idea scenario would be for me to get a 60's in kersey w corduroy pockets, in better condition, in a size 32r ... that really still would be my "Grail coat" in my mind... I would love having a coat that actually fits me, from both eras...

you told me I wouldn't find a 60's kersey in a 32r- is that because it was never made? or because it's just really rare?

does anyone have any insight on the 1980's navy 100% melton vs the 100% melton offered by sterlingwear today (current issue), or 75/80% melton of civilian sterlingwear/schott today?

thank you so much for your time and advice!

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

^^^^Sage advice you’ve been given on both peacoats by a man named....Peacoat!!
You must be a lucky kinda guy to find a 34 and then a 32!! Not an easy task.
You will notice a difference between the two, then will say “what was i thinkin”??
Look forward to seeing both, i hope, Buss and welcome to the lounge.
B

 

[Peacoat]

you told me I wouldn't find a kersey in a 32r- is that because it was never made? or because it's just really rare?

does anyone have any insight on the 1980's navy 100% melton vs the 100% melton offered by sterlingwear today (current issue), or 75/80% melton of civilian sterlingwear/schott today?

A size 32 peacoat is rare. There were probably more of them made prior to and during WWII because men were smaller then, but WWII coats in any size are difficult to find today. Size 42 coats, and above, and size 32 are rare, and have been for a number of years. They are out there, but difficult to find. When found, they are usually expensive.

As men began to get larger after the war, fewer size 32 coats were made and more coats size 42 and above were made.

As to your second question, I think my terminology needs to be explained so we can all be reading from the same sheet of music. I refer to any Navy issued coat from 1980 until today as "current issue." That's because, to the best of my knowledge, the material has remained unchanged since 1980. I haven't handled coats from all of those different years, but I have seen enough to form an opinion about the material.

I have a 1980 "black" Melton coat and used to have one from the 90s. The material is the same. I no longer have the 90s coat because I gave it to a friend of mine who needed a winter coat. Based on the shell of these two coats, and in talking with Sterlingwear, I determined the same material is being used today that was used in 1980, the first year of the changeover. Sterlingwear and the Navy don't call this a black coat, but say there is a bit of blue in the material. To me it looks black. Sterlingwear agrees, but says it is actually a very dark blue. I call them black.

These coats are warm, not so much because of the Melton wool, which is less dense than the Kersey, but because of a thin insulating inner liner between the outer rayon liner and the shell. My experience has been that the current issue coats are as warm as the vintage models, and are as windproof through the torso where the liner is. They are not, however, as water resistant because the Melton shell is not nearly as dense as the Kersey.

As to the civilian versions, whether they be by Sterlingwear or Schott or anyone else, I have no opinion on these coats. They are not vintage and they are not military, so I know little about them. I do know that Sterlingwear is a quality manufacturer and has been for a number of years. They used to be known as Viking and were suppliers to the military.
Their military branch was Viking Military, and they supplied peacoats to the Navy under the name of V Mil.

What is not widely known is that Sterlingwear will sell the actual peacoat they make for the Navy to the public by special request. The coats sell for $400 to $500 each. It requires an order by phone as the coats are not listed on their website. I don't know if this is still available or not. The Sterlingwear website is down and has been for several months.

I think I have answered all of your questions; if not let me know.

 

[busstonedfx]

@Peacoat- you have went above and beyond, answering every question I had with great clarity. I knew I I came to the right place, and I thank you again!
I'm looking forward to trying this 80's melton in 32r, should be here Monday!
I guess I shouldn't need to spend 400 something on a new one from Sterlingwear today, if it's the same material as what's already on the way! Thank you again for the advice

as for WWII coats... i really think I couldn't stomach the condition one of those must be in in 2020.... but lucky for me I can get one in the WWII specs in a brand new Schott 740 in 32r... (but i confirmed with them, no corduroy pockets)

@AbbaDatDeHat - Yeah!! I guess I am kinda lucky, I got that 60's kersey in 34r for ~80 bucks and , and the 80's melton 32r for ~50 .. the timing couldn't have been better, either!

I will be keeping an eye out for a 60's kersey in 32r.... i'll be thinking about cord pockets for a while... LOL.. hope I get lucky again...

wtf am I doing starting a coat collection when summer is coming :0

 

[busstonedfx]

@Peacoat - This coat looks like it has a 45 tag from your dating post , in a size 32, but the seller doesn't mention or show any corduroy in the pockets....This would be kersey, right?

I went from eyeballing one coat, to considering buying a 3rd right now, in hopes of finding the perfect one..

 

[Peacoat]

@Peacoat
as for WWII coats... i really think I couldn't stomach the condition one of those must be in in 2020.... but lucky for me I can get one in the WWII specs in a brand new Schott 740 in 32r... (but i confirmed with them, no corduroy pockets)

A lot of those WWII coats are still in decent condition. I have had two of them and can't complain about the condition of either of them.

I think the Schott 740 is fairly accurate to the WWII specs, but not sure as I have never seen one. I tried to find out from Gail when, exactly, did Schott have the contract during the war. She didn't know, and no one at the company had any idea. I doubt the 740 will have the Kersey wool, just as it doesn't have the corduroy pockets. So when they say the 740 is built to WWII specs, be careful of that claim. Also probably wise to see what % of wool is in the shell. I doubt that it is 100% wool as it should be, based on WWII specs.

 

[busstonedfx]

I am in agreement, I believe Schott are being misleading with that claim. Their 740 is 75% reprocessed Melton... Not 100% Kersey

 

[Peacoat]

Well, at least they note that it is Melton, but honestly, who among the general public would know that Kersey was used in WWII? And they shouldn't market it as "Classic Melton" wool. The Navy didn't adopt the Melton shell until 1980. I wouldn't call that classic.

The coat you linked to is almost a WWII coat. This is one of the first post WWII coats as it is a 1945 coat.

 

[busstonedfx]

Post WWII 45' was 100% kersey too, right?

I'm gonna buy this with the money I am getting back for the kersey coat I just received in 34r... I'm gonna go broke collecting coats....

@Peacoat - considering that 60's 34r was big on me, this 45' 32 should fit me correctly, in your guesstimation? thank you again...

forget about schott... gonna go with this 45' kersey, and that 80's melton, and try to not spend more money on peacoats... !!! god help me

 

[Peacoat]

Post WWII 45' was 100% kersey too, right?

I'm gonna buy this with the money I am getting back for the kersey coat I just received in 34r... I'm gonna go broke collecting coats....

@Peacoat - considering that 60's 34r was big on me, this 45' 32 should fit me correctly, in your guesstimation? thank you again...

forget about schott... gonna go with this 45' kersey, and that 80's melton, and try to not spend more money on peacoats... !!! god help me

That is the plan I would follow. The tag on the 1945 isn't showing much wear, so if the moth holes are mostly absent, it should be a nice coat. Ask about moth holes. And you ought to get a sleeve measurement to make sure the sleeves haven't been shortened. See my dating guide in the Guides section for the proper way to measure the sleeves. Also, I have attached a picture of one of the correct ways to measure the sleeve.

Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[Peacoat]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Na...307829?hash=item1f09143e75:g:zuEAAOSwNAVeE9La

@Peacoat - This coat looks like it has a 45 tag from your dating post , in a size 32, but the seller doesn't mention or show any corduroy in the pockets....This would be kersey, right?

I went from eyeballing one coat, to considering buying a 3rd right now, in hopes of finding the perfect one..

Yes, it is Kersey and will have corduroy pockets.

 

[busstonedfx]

so the man replied that there are no moth holes but a hole in the lining. I think I could live with that.

the sleeve is actually 24.5" not 24"... I think it could work...

ok i hesitated for a bit, and couldn't help myself.

but a question about this corduroy... is it weird that it's smooth on one side of this pocket?:

i'll have a 32r in both melton and kersey, and a 34r in kersey (and the knockoff one that started this whole mess, that ironically fits me as perfectly as a jacket can fit)....thank you again Mr. P for the truly expert advice... I just made through all 99 pages, with a real appreciation for kersey... gonna defintely keep and repair that 34r, and take your advice about drycleaning (whenever they open back up) and moth-proofing it and then growing into it lol

thank you, and now i swear i'm done with shopping for peacoats...i hope
gonna be back with pics of the coats when they arrive, and maybe some advice for repairs :0

 

[Peacoat]

@busstonedfx: It is unusual that it is smooth on one side. Never seen one like that before.

Now that you have some coats for comparison, use the p2p and sleeve measurements on a target peacoat and compare to the known measurements on your peacoat.

 

[busstonedfx]

reddit tells me "One side is cord and the other is a fleeced cotton. The cord side takes the friction when your shoving your hands in and the fleeced is for added warmth."

and the seller assured me this was not altered, and was made this way...

when everything is here i'll take a bunch of photos and measurements, (p2p from the front when buttoned?, sleeve length like the photo you uploaded, and shoulder to shoulder from the back?? and length from top of the collar to the bottom of the coat from the back?) and wearing with a t shirt- in case anyone else is my body type and has to do everything via mail like I had to....

 

[Spoonbelly]

so the man replied that there are no moth holes but a hole in the lining. I think I could live with that.

the sleeve is actually 24.5" not 24"... I think it could work...

ok i hesitated for a bit, and couldn't help myself.

but a question about this corduroy... is it weird that it's smooth on one side of this pocket?:
View attachment 221505

i'll have a 32r in both melton and kersey, and a 34r in kersey (and the knockoff one that started this whole mess, that ironically fits me as perfectly as a jacket can fit)....thank you again Mr. P for the truly expert advice... I just made through all 99 pages, with a real appreciation for kersey... gonna defintely keep and repair that 34r, and take your advice about drycleaning (whenever they open back up) and moth-proofing it and then growing into it lol

thank you, and now i swear i'm done with shopping for peacoats...i hope
gonna be back with pics of the coats when they arrive, and maybe some advice for repairs :0

I found it addicting for me. I went from one coat to now ten. I also have a pretty rare size - 46 - 46L(Long). I figured that since 46 46L was that rare, I better stock up on a few. I have 8 Kerseys and 2 Meltons which fill up the moth ball closet in my house. I got these coats about 5 - 10 ten years ago. I don't think I'd be able to duplicate what I have now. The demand for the Kersey coats have increased since then along with a smaller supply and an increase in prices. I'm not in the market for any more except for my two fantasy coats - a 1949 46Long, and a 1958 46Long. Someone on ebay scammed me claiming he had a '58 46 Long. I didn't investigate enough and was taken. It turned out to be a '69 in lousy shape and was not a Long. I was taken, but it was my fault. I couldn't resist reading about a '58 46 Long. Out of maybe 10 -15 coats on ebay maybe 3 turned out to be rip offs.

 

[busstonedfx]

it's for sure addicting,. I went from not knowing anything, to borderline obsessed, seeking specific years in a coat that wouldn't even fit me at the moment lol

eBay is pretty good about protecting buyers recently... makes it more likely to buy the coat "just to see" with no risk of returns, but with that, I risk wanting to just keep it, and then a coat collection will begin..

it seems 34r is a lot more common and because of that, i find myself more and more wanting to find a 34r kersey in better condition than the one I have now...and with the dmg I feel like that seller took me, too, with the deceptive photos (a small moth hole in the back, damaged lining).... I have the opportunity for a full refund to spend that cash on a mint 32r or 34r... but at the moment I find myself getting attached to it while waiting for the 32r's, just because of the pristine 62' tag on the 34r seems pretty rare....

when maybe I shouldn't because the rest of the coat is damaged (and is too big for me), and in a common size that I could get almost mint (probably not 62') for a cheaper price...

I just need to find that ONE coat, in the PERFECT size, and a special year... that is in good condition (someone's name written on the tag seems to be a glaring imperfection for me, or else I think that postwar 45' in a 32r that's on the way would cure my budding addiction) and I can stop going on eBay

I'm scared of asking the question, because then I'm gonna find myself looking for something I don't even know exists at the moment.......
but....

why the '58?

just read on the dating guide that 49' is the nicest finish that Peacoat has ever seen... what's so special about the year 58? is it because it says "US Navy" explicitly? That's why I'm hesitating to return this 62....

 

[Peacoat]

The finish on the 1949 coats is the nicest of any the years. I first noticed it about 10 years ago, and made mention of it. Over the years others noticed it as well and agreed with me.

I initially thought 1958 might be the first year of the "US NAVY" tag, but later determined it was probably 1956. The "US NAVY" tag is my favorite of all of them. It was also one of, and maybe the, longest running tag. But @Spoonbelly will have to answer the question of why he wants a coat of that year.

Somewhere in this thread we discussed the first year for the US NAVY label. I need to track it down, get a definitive date and then change the date in the Dating thread. Right now it says, "In 1958 (or perhaps a year or two earlier) the style changed to simply 'US Navy,' which was in use until 1965."

 

[busstonedfx]

can anyone confirm that this is a 66' tag?:0

 

[Peacoat]

can anyone confirm that this is a 66' tag?:0

this is a '49 in a size 42 I stumbled across, if anyone's looking for one of those now, or a spare hahah

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-PEACO...TRV6qrLjC4tXPCSrcyIBw3VyddoxgzStp-Xji2TX-GoTA

Yes, it is a 1966 peacoat.