Quality of manufacture for leather coats?

[Naphtali]

Disregarding authenticity of reproductions to focus on: quality of manufacture; vegetable tanning of leather, quality of leathers used -- which manufacturers create best-quality jackets and coats? Which manufacturers, while being a notch below best-quality, create acceptable-quality jackets and coats? And which also ran?

I am particularly interested in evaluations of the following (in alphabetical order):
- Aero

- Cirrus

- Eastman

- flightjacket.com

- flying-jacket.com

- Mill Valley

- U.S. Wings

Clearly, these manufacturers do not manufacture comparable quality leather garments. This does not imply that all do not have acceptable quality. I'm trying to get a handle on the total situation.

 

[Jacob Dubow]

If you are considering a military A-2 type leather jacket, I would definitely include Good Wear Leather Coat Co. in your list of manufacturers. Good Wear manufactures an excellent product!


J.A. Dubow (aka Ted)

 

[MJCR]

I've got a Horsehide A2 from flightjacket.com and it's fantastic. Not as accurate as some of the other options out there, but I was very pleased with the quality of the work and it's indestructible!

Last year I got the Horsehide Barnstormer from Aero in Brown and it's simply the best jacket I've ever seen or owned. The only downside to it are that it's a bit warm for much of the year, but that just makes it more fun to wear when it is cold enough!

 

[Smithy]

Depends enormously on what you are after.

Are you after a flight jacket and if so, leather or sheepskin, and then what type? Are you interested in accuracy, price, certain features, etc?

Or are you after a "civilian" jacket or coat? In which case what kind/type are you after and what features functions are important to you?

It's very much dependent upon what you are after and what features, etc are important to you.

Any chance you can be a little more specific?

 

[jamespibworth@n]

Interesting debate.

I was once taught that ‘quality’ is the ability to best fulfill a requirement. If you require a low cost, economical, reliable car then a Lada would best meet those qualities (well maybe not reliable but you get the picture). Whereas a Rolls Royce would not, as it does not have the ability to meet the same requirements.

So as Smithy is saying, the quality I would look for in a jacket might not be the same as another person would look for.

A hand made coat is not necessary better quality than a production made coat, it’s just more expensive!

So maybe we could be asking which jacket/coat manufacturer offers the best value for money in terms of construction and materials used within a given budget.


James

 

[Peacoat]

To answer your direct question directly, I have an Aero Highwayman I wear when riding my Harley. Quality is excellent. Chrome tanned keeps the rain off, and it is thick in the event of a "go down."

 

[Tomasso]

Or are you after a "civilian" jacket or coat?

If so, then look for the best leather outerwear to have been tanned and made up in France (Hermes, Lanvin, Seraphin, etc..).

 

[bobjones]

If so, then look for the best leather outerwear to have been tanned and made up in France (Hermes, Lanvin, Seraphin, etc..).

Not sure about that one, Tomasso. Alot of even Hermes' product is manufactured overseas, and I wouldn't trade an Italian tanner for anyone, save Horween in Chi-town when it comes to FQHH. For other leather types, like full-grain cowhide, Italian tanners seem to be the best, IMHO.

See:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/23/opinion/23thomas.html?_r=2&ref=todayspaper&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

What I believe the thread-starter meant was quality of stitching, for example using nylon instead of cheap cotton, and in straight, accurate lines, are all of the edges properly finished, is the lining made with high quality, multi-threaded cotton (if he chose a cotton drill, for instance), are the snaps and zippers made with heavy, genuine brass or something cheaper but painted over in brass-color, does the jacket use large, thick and good-quality hides or small pieces of inferior, thinner hides, etc.

I think he meant product quality as opposed to historical accuracy with respect to duplication of military repros, at least that how I read it.

 

[Tomasso]

Alot of even Hermes' product is manufactured overseas.

If by overseas you mean France, then true. The top four tanneries in the world are located in France and Hermes has an interest in two of them. They made the investment so that they could control the quality of their leather goods, which are known to be unsurpassed in quality.

I wouldn't trade an Italian tanner for anyone.

Well, the highest prices come from the French auctions, so there are some in the the industry who would disagree.

save Horween in Chi-town

World's best cordovan, great NFL footballs, the rest......................OK. BTW, nobody from Chicago uses the phrase Chi-Town

 

[bobjones]

If by overseas you mean France, then true. The top four tanneries in the world are located in France and Hermes has an interest in two of them. They made the investment so that they could control the quality of their leather goods, which are known to be unsurpassed in quality.

Well, the highest prices come from the French auctions, so there are some in the the industry who would disagree.

World's best cordovan, great NFL footballs, the rest......................OK. BTW, nobody from Chicago uses the phrase Chi-Town

No, as the article I linked to shows, Hermes manufactures outside of France. And that was just what the exec admitted to...

Further, I am not sure if I were to agree that Hermes leather products are the best available. Even if they were, their cost/value ratio is terrible from what I have seen of their product.

Other companies can manufacture excellent product for FAR less than Hermes, and while leather may not be in my "field of expertise", suits certainly are, as I have had to wear one daily for almost 25 years, and the Hermes suit, while well-made, is simply not a good value at some $4,000 dollars. I am VERY rough on my suits, and am lucky to get 3 good years out of one as I am constantly on the move, and find of all the 30-50 brands I have worn so far, Ralph Lauren has held up best, but back to leather...

As for FQHH, as I understand Horween is the best there is, and is the place that Lost Worlds and Aero buy from. Even the leather manufacturers I have seen based in France buy their leather from Horween, and I have yet to hear from anyone besides yourself, frankly that French tanners are in the same league as either Italian, and certainly not Horween when it comes to FQHH.

But if I am off-base, as there are others who possess more knowledge for sure than me - most here probably do - please enlighten me...

 

[Tomasso]

No, as the article I linked to shows, Hermes manufactures outside of France. And that was just what the exec admitted to......

"some of its silk scarves are hemmed by hand in Mauritius, where labor costs less".. Sorry, I thought we were talking about their leather goods, which are handmade in France.

Further, I am not sure if I were to agree that Hermes leather products are the best available. Even if they were, their cost/value ratio is terrible from what I have seen of their product."...

Hermes is the benchmark for quality but there are several other atelier who deliver similar quality at a lower price-point, but not much lower.

As for FQHH...

I thought we were talking about Hermes.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Disregarding authenticity of reproductions to focus on: quality of manufacture; vegetable tanning of leather, quality of leathers used -- which manufacturers create best-quality jackets and coats? Which manufacturers, while being a notch below best-quality, create acceptable-quality jackets and coats? And which also ran?

I am particularly interested in evaluations of the following (in alphabetical order):
- Aero

- Cirrus

- Eastman

- flightjacket.com

- flying-jacket.com

- Mill Valley

- U.S. Wings

Clearly, these manufacturers do not manufacture comparable quality leather garments. This does not imply that all do not have acceptable quality. I'm trying to get a handle on the total situation.

I guess the problem we're encountering here is that for none of these companies can one say: "All of their leather products are great . . . bar none. All the military repros and civvie styles are great leather and wonderful workmanship." Rather the answer will be in terms of; well, company A makes the best pound for pound A-2 but their Irvins are garbage. But company B is where you want to go for Irvins, but their details/accuracy are a little off. This would be a lot of work for anyone. And i imagine there are very few members who have sufficient knowledge of all the products of all the companies to give a definitive, all-inclusive answer.

The guys can help if you, say, ask for comparison of the A-2 produced by each company. But specificity is necessary. The original question is a little broad.

bk

 

[Tommydean]

my A-2 came from US/A(flightjacket.com) and i like it alot..very tough!!
I did consider Aero and US Wings. Aero turned out to be to expensive for my hight. US Wings.....well these guys really &%$#ed me off.. i called for sizing and i gave them my hight&weight and they said we dont make that size click................ as far as companys like G/W they look spot on but are way
out of my price range.

 

[Naphtali]

. . . What I believe the thread-starter meant was quality of stitching, for example using nylon instead of cheap cotton, and in straight, accurate lines, are all of the edges properly finished, is the lining made with high quality, multi-threaded cotton (if he chose a cotton drill, for instance), are the snaps and zippers made with heavy, genuine brass or something cheaper but painted over in brass-color, does the jacket use large, thick and good-quality hides or small pieces of inferior, thinner hides, etc.

I think he meant product quality as opposed to historical accuracy with respect to duplication of military repros, at least that how I read it.

You got my intent.

The reason I exclude authenticity of reproduction is that I make an assumption that manufacturer ABC would have an identical standard of workmanship and quality of materials throughout its product line. A-2 jackets may, for example, be nearly exact reproductions while Irvins may be not nearly so. But the quality of manufacture would be to the same standard -- at least, that was my assumption.

 

[bobjones]

"some of its silk scarves are hemmed by hand in Mauritius, where labor costs less".. Sorry, I thought we were talking about their leather goods, which are handmade in France.

Hermes is the benchmark for quality but there are several other atelier who deliver similar quality at a lower price-point, but not much lower.

I thought we were talking about Hermes.

I do not agree that Hermes is a quality benchmark, any more than Louis Vuitton or Hugo Boss.

These design house spend millions trying to maintain thier high gloss, and while their products might be mostly well made, as the poster above said not all are, nor can be.

When it comes to suits or leather jackets, luggage or bags/briefcases, I would choose many manufacturers over these 3.

The Times article link indicated that the Hermes exec admitted that the scarves were made overseas, and I suspect many of their other items are as well.

RE: the thread starter, I would choose a jacket from probably ANY of the companies on his list over these high-priced, overly marketed and hyped design houses.

And to be honest, I have been buying finer men's clothing for almost 3 decades, and you are the first to even mention that a tanner outside of Italy is the best for traditional cowhide/calf/steer hides as the "finest."

But we all have heard of the typical French arrogance...

 

[Smithy]

But we all have heard of the typical French arrogance...

That comment is completely unacceptable here at the FL.

Cultural stereotypes are easy to throw around and frequently wrong. I'll remind you that many small minded people in the world go around saying all Americans are arrogant, and I would imagine that you would disagree with that.

Leave the discussion to the leather clothing and leave your perceptions of other nationalities out of here.

 

[Tomasso]

I do not agree that Hermes is a quality benchmark

Then there is nothing more I can say for you have no idea what you are talking about. [huh]

 

[WhiskeyTangoFox]

Disregarding authenticity of reproductions to focus on: quality of manufacture; vegetable tanning of leather, quality of leathers used -- which manufacturers create best-quality jackets and coats? Which manufacturers, while being a notch below best-quality, create acceptable-quality jackets and coats? And which also ran?

I am particularly interested in evaluations of the following (in alphabetical order):
- Aero

- Cirrus

- Eastman

- flightjacket.com

- flying-jacket.com

- Mill Valley

- U.S. Wings

Clearly, these manufacturers do not manufacture comparable quality leather garments. This does not imply that all do not have acceptable quality. I'm trying to get a handle on the total situation.

Naphtali:

I don't have experience with all of these manufacturers but I do have experience with Eastman, flightjacket.com (U.S. Authentic), and Lost Worlds (which wasn't on your original list). In terms of sheer jacket construction quality, I would rank them Eastman, Lost Worlds, then U.S. Authentic from highest to lowest.

Noel

 

[bobjones]

That comment is completely unacceptable here at the FL.

Cultural stereotypes are easy to throw around and frequently wrong. I'll remind you that many small minded people in the world go around saying all Americans are arrogant, and I would imagine that you would disagree with that.

Leave the discussion to the leather clothing and leave your perceptions of other nationalities out of here.

Smithy, I was kidding about the French, most of my clients are French, I speak a little french and used to live there.

I am big enough that were somebody to make a silly, but funny comment about America I think I could smile or laugh and not get upset.

I don't think my skin is as thick as FQHH - but strong goatskin maybe?

 

[bobjones]

Then there is nothing more I can say for you have no idea what you are talking about. [huh]

If we disagree, that's fine, but I won't lower myself to claim the other person is completely ignorant. Since you are starting to take this conversation personally, and I want to keep this forum at its typical excellent, respectful and informative level, I will agree to disagree, and leave it at that. :eusa_doh: