Quality of manufacture for leather coats?

[Tomasso]

If we disagree, that's fine, but I won't lower myself to claim the other person is completely ignorant.

Look, you are obviously unaware of the standing Hermes holds in the world of leather goods. Here's a recent article on Hermes which you may find illuminating.

 

[iammatt]

Anybody who has taken the time to look and touch Hermes products, from their scarves to the wallets to their leather jackets, knows that the quality is there. Even their competitors readily acknowledge that there is no higher quality manufacturer than Hermes, and when they buy from other shops (like Seraphin) that nobody is a stricter buyer than Hermes. You might not like their prices, and you might hate their styles, but to debate their quality is pure folly.

 

[Smithy]

Smithy, I was kidding about the French, most of my clients are French, I speak a little french and used to live there.

I am big enough that were somebody to make a silly, but funny comment about America I think I could smile or laugh and not get upset.

I don't think my skin is as thick as FQHH - but strong goatskin maybe?

I can understand you were probably joking but there's a number of French people who are members here and not everyone (especially if English is their second language) will realise that.

I'm a Kiwi and wouldn't give two hoots about anyone taking the mickey out of NZ - I'm used to all my Aussie mates doing it! - but not everyone one is thick skinned and members here tend to steer clear of that sort of thing. Think of it more of a heads up about what's generally accepted here.

 

[feltfan]

I think the discussion about Hermes, aside from being unhelpful
to the original poster, is pretty funny. If I ever came across an
A-2 made from thin, soft Hermes leather, I'd throw it away. This
really is a case of apples and oranges. Both fruit, but meeting
very different needs. Which is another way of saying I don't
think Hermes makes tough FQHH jackets, for example.

I have been pursuing a leather jacket recently myself.
Rather than try to find a comparison of all the brands,
I looked at photos until I found something I liked. Then
I pursued reviews of that maker. I found one that I liked,
but uncovered some problems that I don't want to deal
with at present. So I started over. I then found
someone who is meticulous in his manufacture and
obsessive in his interest in leathers. I have yet to
find a negative comment on his product. I'll let him take it from there.

I'm on the waiting list now, so I won't comment on whether
my approach worked.

 

[bobjones]

Look, you are obviously unaware of the standing Hermes holds in the world of leather goods. Here's a recent article on Hermes which you may find illuminating.

Look mister, I am VERY aware of who and what Hermes is, Edited for language. Feraud. I don't need to hear from you who/what they are, which is a pointlessly overpriced product which IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM answers the original threadstarter's question.

Selling a $7,000 pocketbook and telling people that it's "quality" to anyone intelligent is pure bollocks, a comparably well-made bag can be hand-crafted for FAR less. When someone asks you they want to buy a top-of-the-line car that is priced appropriately, and you answer a "Rolls Royce", you are not answering their question.

Noone in their right mind is going to argue Hermes is garbage, just as noone in their right mind will argue that it is a good value or the absolute "best product", partially b/c it is so ridiculously overpriced, and because different people are looking for different things.

I would put a Lost Worlds, Aero, or some of the others' leather coats up against hermes any day, and given the delicateness of Hermes' product, which is fashion and NOT built as rugged, there is no comparison, PERIOD.

Bottom line is that the threadstarter clearly stated, and then REITERATED, they are looking for durability, for which a delicate $9,000 lizard skin jacket is NOT what he is looking for.

I offered a gentlemanly end to the conversation earlier, and instead, you insulted me another time, and unless the mods close this thread or reel you in, I am not going to absorb further BS from you, esp. since you can't seem to grasp the core message of what the threadstarter is asking for help with.

 

[bobjones]

Anybody who has taken the time to look and touch Hermes products, from their scarves to the wallets to their leather jackets, knows that the quality is there. Even their competitors readily acknowledge that there is no higher quality manufacturer than Hermes, and when they buy from other shops (like Seraphin) that nobody is a stricter buyer than Hermes. You might not like their prices, and you might hate their styles, but to debate their quality is pure folly.

I never denied their "quality," I argued the point that they were the "best," a mythical term impossible to reach since it means different things to different people.

In this thread, the poster is seeking durability and ruggedness, and a delicate fashion jacket from Hermes vis a vis a Lost Worlds is simply not a reasonable comparison given that Hermes' jackets and leather goods are FASHION ITEMS, not designed as tough leather jackets to motocycle in or stand up to rough wear. They might be superb fashion items, but they are NOT what the threadstarter is seeking.

 

[bobjones]

I think the discussion about Hermes, aside from being unhelpful
to the original poster, is pretty funny. If I ever came across an
A-2 made from thin, soft Hermes leather, I'd throw it away. This
really is a case of apples and oranges. Both fruit, but meeting
very different needs. Which is another way of saying I don't
think Hermes makes tough FQHH jackets, for example.

THANK YOU, someone here gets it.

 

[iammatt]

I never denied their "quality," I argued the point that they were the "best," a mythical term impossible to reach since it means different things to different people.

Well, they are the highest quality. Whether that makes them the best for any one use is up to the user.

In this thread, the poster is seeking durability and ruggedness, and a delicate fashion jacket from Hermes vis a vis a Lost Worlds is simply not a reasonable comparison given that Hermes' jackets and leather goods are FASHION ITEMS,

Fashion or not, they are absolute classics and the leather goods stand up to a lot of wear and tear often outliving some of the stuff you are suggesting. As for your comment above that something of comparable quality can be had for much less, it can't. It can be had for a little less, but only if you know the right places to go, and there are probably less than five in the world, and probably only one in the US. That is for leather goods, not jackets.

not designed as tough leather jackets to motocycle in or stand up to rough wear. They might be superb fashion items, but they are NOT what the threadstarter is seeking.

This is true, but you were responding to both issues.

 

[bobjones]

Well, they are the highest quality.

This is a debatable point. If they used diamonds for their jacket buttons, which is a "higher quality" material than brass, but costs 25 times as much, would that make the jacket a "better quality"?

Whether that makes them the best for any one use is up to the user.

Agreed, but the other poster is unwilling to accept this point.

Fashion or not, they are absolute classics

On this point, I must diverge. As a man, and I think I represent many a man's thought process today whil will spend whatever it takes to get the best-made product, is that "fashion" or label is really of little or no value.

At the risk of sounding like Stu Clurman, I buy a product b/c it is extremely well-made, and serves the purpose I need it for. I am too old and too comfortable in my own shoes at this age to frankly care what other people think about my "style," which is a conservative bent. I wear a tasteful suit 5 days per week, and cannot fathom the idea at this stage of buying an item that a-either alot of other people have b-costs 40 times what a similarly qualitative item can be made for.

My wife and I discussed this again today, and even she admitted that women buy Hermes products to impress other women, as most men couldn't care less about such frivolous "fashion items."

I have to believe that most people would agree that the reason a Hermes "Kelly" bag is $7,000 is because of its desirability and trendiness, not because it costs anywhere near that to manufacture in terms of its materials or workmanship.

and the leather goods stand up to a lot of wear and tear often outliving some of the stuff you are suggesting.

This is HIGHLY debatable. Thin-skinned lizard or lambskin jackets will NOT hold up as well as FQHH, on this point I do not think there is much room to discuss.

As for your comment above that something of comparable quality can be had for much less, it can't.

Yes it can, and especially in the case of a $4,000 Hermes suit.

Many of my clients make between $5 MM and $15 MM per year, and have discussed at length with me their distaste for Hermes and other hig-end couture-house suits. I have had Hugo Boss and other $2,000 suits fall apart on me, while $800 Ralph Lauren ones have held up quite well to the incredible pounding I deliver to them. Do NOT let price dictate whether an item is of quality all the time, sometimes it is true, but not always.

It can be had for a little less, but only if you know the right places to go, and there are probably less than five in the world, and probably only one in the US. That is for leather goods, not jackets.

Again I disagree. I would proffer many different leather goods manufacturers in the US, England and Italy whose briefcases and bags are superbly crafted, and will hold up quite well, providing far more value than a Hermes product costing 10 or more times as much.

Check out their US site now for their $540 men's belt for example, do you actually think that that product is really superior to one crafted by one of the finer manufacturers in England like Launer or Ettinger's? I don't.

But while a bit knowledgeable about leather, it is not my forte, and I am much more competent with respect to suits. As a man, however, I am just not willing to accept that a product where the majority of very fine, upscale men's suppliers sell a leather briefcase for say $1,200, and Hermes offers one for $ 9,000, that their bag is superior in quality or value in any way. Perhaps I can be proven wrong in my assessment, but unlike some other posters here - who I will not name - am open to a well-stated education.

 

[MudInYerEye]

I hate this thread.

 

[bobjones]

I hate this thread.

Agreed, this thread is not representative of what is good about TFL. Mods should lock it.

 

[Feraud]

Agreed, this thread is not representative of what is good about TFL. Mods should lock it.

I see no reason for locking the thread.
Keep the mud slingin' to a minimum, stick to the facts and we can debate to our hearts content.

 

[Tomasso]

stick to the facts and we can debate to our hearts content.

Sorry Feraud, I'm out. Had I seen this earlier post of Bob's I wouldn't even have responded to his comments.

At the risk of speaking out of turn, especially in a specialized area (men's leather jackets) of which my knowledge could be placed on a pinhead

 

[bobjones]

Sorry Feraud, I'm out. Had I seen this earlier post of Bob's I wouldn't even have responded to his comments.

Oh my what a loss to all of us. Oh please Professor Tomasso, enlighten us with your wizardry and infinite knowledge, please don't leave...

What is amazing about this forum is that this was the first person who was less than pleasant to deal with. Literally everyone else I have conversed with here is a stand-up person and a pleasure to speak with. I will know to avoid him in the future.

And I guess he can't read too well, because I said men's JACKETS, not leather goods. But raishu and ja mata nonetheless...

 

[iammatt]

Oh my what a loss to all of us. Oh please Professor Tomasso, enlighten us with your wizardry and infinite knowledge, please don't leave...

What is amazing about this forum is that this was the first person who was less than pleasant to deal with. Literally everyone else I have conversed with here is a stand-up person and a pleasure to speak with. I will know to avoid them in the future.

And I guess he can't read too well, because I said men's JACKETS, not leather goods. But raishu and ja mata nonetheless...

You will eventually learn that Tomasso, despite his tendency to be a bit prickly, generally has the goods. He knows a lot more than most groups of posters combined.

 

[bobjones]

You will eventually learn that Tomasso, despite his tendency to be a bit prickly, generally has the goods. He knows a lot more than most groups of posters combined.

In certain areas that are factually based perhaps, but to take an attitude of "I know for a fact Hermes is the best" is quite frankly, immature and wrong.

I have not been here for very long, and have enjoyed learning and reading about many topics, but this was the first poster to not only cop a bad attitude, but also insult other people. TFL has no place for that, and I am sure most would agree.

 

[Tomasso]

despite his tendency to be a bit prickly,generally has the goods

This is what I pay you for?!:eusa_doh: And prickly...... prickly!!!

 

[Feraud]

I have not been here for very long, and have enjoyed learning and reading about many topics, but this was the first poster to not only cop a bad attitude, but also insult other people. TFL has no place for that, and I am sure most would agree.

And because I have been here very long I should recommend you read the posts and get a feel for the members and their particular personalities. We are a diverse and extremely knowledgable group of people.
Most of our members do not take the "because I said so" type of reply. They will back up their opinions with experience, facts, stats,.. sometimes to ad nauseumlol

 

[bobjones]

And because I have been here very long I should recommend you read the posts and get a feel for the members and their particular personalities. We are a diverse and extremely knowledgable group of people.
Most of our members do not take the "because I said so" type of reply. They will back up their opinions with experience, facts, stats,.. sometimes to ad nauseumlol

7,281 posts? When do you have time to go outside and show off your fashion sense?

The other poster made some rather strong, opinionated posts, and all I saw as "evidence" was a fawning, breathless article from Vanity Fair, hardly a source I would give much credence to, as it's in their best interest to support their advertisers and keep the cloying marketing hype going, but that's a conversation for another day...

 

[Naphtali]

Please, let's relax and work the query.

This winter was the most unpleasant here for a decade -- very cold with large snow build-up. I want one a one-season leather coat, sufficiently long to be a winter coat that, in large measure can replace a parka (hood, perhaps, being replaced by stand-up collar??).

I need assistance because I'm reluctant to invest as much as USD1400 for a coat that may prove unsatisfactory. I understand that thorough research does not guarantee a successful outcome. But it should reduce likelihood of unsuccessful outcome to close to zero.