Problems with Aero Jacket and Talon Zipper

[Sloan1874]

As some

Sloan is a bit over the board with "red-hot on replying" But Holly always replied to me within one or two days. Aero customer service is very good in my experience and a reason that i buy from Aero. So, yes, I am also surprised that the OP would not get reply not just once but on several emails. I would suggest to check the email used.

As someone who has seen the endlessly-filling Aero inbox, one-to-two day reply time does constitute 'red hot'. If you get upwards of 30 or 40 emails a day, some of which require research and consultation to answer properly, while also dealing with the day-to-day running of the business, then that starts to pile up, so being able to keep it under control is no mean feat.

 

[technovox]

I love this forum! No matter what post I read I learn some new esoterica. Full grain vs top grain. Hide tanning techniques. Now zipper gap settings/repair. The more I think I know, the more I'm amazed by the cumulative knowledge of all those here on TFL.

Absolutely. BTW- I've tried that very repair - crimping with pliers- on my Aero Hookless zipper. It works for a while, but eventually the problem comes back. Just my experience.

 

[jacketjunkie]

As some


As someone who has seen the endlessly-filling Aero inbox, one-to-two day reply time does constitute 'red hot'. If you get upwards of 30 or 40 emails a day, some of which require research and consultation to answer properly, while also dealing with the day-to-day running of the business, then that starts to pile up, so being able to keep it under control is no mean feat.

But having seen their inbox, don't you think it's possible that they do miss a e-mail every now and then? Because I have had them not responding to me before. I would just write them again and be good, but still, it happened to me, so how unlikely is it happening to threadstarter?

 

[Sloan1874]

I'm not suggesting that the OP's email wasn't possibly overlooked, I'm just saying that, relative to the size of their in box, their response to emails that they get, and are aware of, is very good.

 

[Monitor]

This one's not much visually better than my #10 YKK whichever. I suppose it depends on the model.
View attachment 49400

I think that visually, these are a notch better than the YKK's. Lettering is more precise. Does this one has a spring?

 

[nick123]

I think that visually, these are a notch better than the YKK's. Lettering is more precise. Does this one has a spring?

I don't know!

 

[Edward]

Funny how you can get to be a tad snobby on this stuff. Used to think the YKK's were the shizzlebiznit, but now the zips are one of the first things I look for and when I see those, I kinda feel yucky inside. May be 100% without merit, but just a change from before TFL/VLJ. Funny hobby.

The evil is always in the details. Amnd all men are on the spectrum somewhere, I firmly believe...

I don't find it surprising that we'd obsess over minor details like zips in these parts. For one thing, we're notg talking about jackets that are twenty-quid Kensington Market specials.... that sort of premium product outlay, you'd expect to be fussier about details - as compared to my Schott and Johnson jackets, both bought used at a much smaller price than even the average used Aero, and both of which I was less overly-fussy about, probably in large part because of the much lower price.

The other thing, of course, is that these jackets are intended to reproduce a certain vintage aesthetic. Even if we're looking at a Hookless zipper that isn't quite a recreation of a model that actually existed back in the day, it has the right look for most folks, whereas the most commonly available YKKs don't. I know in my jackets the only reason I'd tend to avoid a YKK is it having the wrong 'look'. Some will, of course, find that mad, but to me it's no less so than being preoccupied with hide type, colour, pocket layout, collar shape.....

Why... No, rather, how would they be bad? YKK has been around forever, they're the worlds largest zipper maker and they're producing zippers literally of all kinds. There are ugly, plastic, cheap ones - which all work fine in my experience - but then you have their high end styles that are as good as any. They can make perfect replicas of any style and even slap any name you'd want on 'em.

YKK on my Alpinestar jacket is a direct repro of this Talon. Also, best damn zipper ever (both Talon and that YKK)

Absolutely nothing functionally wrong with a YKK; we're all just so used to seeing, in the main, only the very mode3rn-looking, very square ones that can look all wrong on a jacket with a 30s / 40s vibe. If only YKKs with the nicer puller designs were more widely available, I think you'd see much more take-up.

 

[Stand By]

Vintage zips, IMO, have the same appeal as Jeeps. As vehicles go, they are noisy, uncomfortable on long drives, expensive to buy, expensive to run and lack many modern frills (they have straps on the doors and thus cannot control the swing as they open/close - potentially dinging other cars and themselves, so one needs to use them with care). But in spite of these shortcomings - because the vehicle is based on a 1940s design - they still sell as they have a certain aesthetic that appeals to some people out there who choose not to run (or drive) with the modern herd. I get it. Like jackets and ephemera, they touch that strange certain something inside that speaks to the soul. They don't make practical or financial sense, but they sell anyway.
Zips are the same - as they reflect the designs of the 40s and 50s. I have a finicky NOS Talon on my ELC RW B-3 and, as stated already, one needs to be "present" of mind when engaging it. If I am on "autopilot" as I casually throw on the jacket, my casual attempt to zip it up will be rewarded with a reminder to me to pay full attention and treat the zip with the care it properly deserves. I love that zip and wouldn't change it. I also have a NOS Talon on my Aero ANJ-3 and it performs flawlessly.
That said, my best zip award would go to the Aero zip I used to have on my ANJ-3 - and it was made by YKK - and I know some around here aren't fans of the Aero zip, but for me it was butter-smooth and never gave me a lick of trouble and couldn't be faulted - and it looked the part too. I had it replaced as I wanted a vintage zip on my jacket and I'm happier with that, but credit where credit's due and that Aero zip changed my opinion on YKK as, like Butte, I was a bit snobbish about them until then. I liked the fact that the YKK stamp was discreetly on the reverse side though! But it just worked; especially on "autopilot" and before any morning coffee!
Best of luck with your replacement.

 

[Edward]

Those were the zips Aero used as default a few years ago (an still do on some models)? Yes, I've always had exellent experiences with them - and, of course, the puller is a nice, discreet, vintage-looking little thing.

 

[BobJ]

Vintage zips, IMO, have the same appeal as Jeeps. As vehicles go, they are noisy, uncomfortable on long drives, expensive to buy, expensive to run and lack many modern frills (they have straps on the doors and thus cannot control the swing as they open/close - potentially dinging other cars and themselves, so one needs to use them with care). But in spite of these shortcomings - because the vehicle is based on a 1940s design - they still sell as they have a certain aesthetic that appeals to some people out there who choose not to run (or drive) with the modern herd. I get it. Like jackets and ephemera, they touch that strange certain something inside that speaks to the soul. They don't make practical or financial sense, but they sell anyway.
Zips are the same - as they reflect the designs of the 40s and 50s. I have a finicky NOS Talon on my ELC RW B-3 and, as stated already, one needs to be "present" of mind when engaging it. If I am on "autopilot" as I casually throw on the jacket, my casual attempt to zip it up will be rewarded with a reminder to me to pay full attention and treat the zip with the care it properly deserves. I love that zip and wouldn't change it. I also have a NOS Talon on my Aero ANJ-3 and it performs flawlessly.
That said, my best zip award would go to the Aero zip I used to have on my ANJ-3 - and it was made by YKK - and I know some around here aren't fans of the Aero zip, but for me it was butter-smooth and never gave me a lick of trouble and couldn't be faulted - and it looked the part too. I had it replaced as I wanted a vintage zip on my jacket and I'm happier with that, but credit where credit's due and that Aero zip changed my opinion on YKK as, like Butte, I was a bit snobbish about them until then. I liked the fact that the YKK stamp was discreetly on the reverse side though! But it just worked; especially on "autopilot" and before any morning coffee!
Best of luck with your replacement.

That... is some well-crafted prose.

 

[HPA Rep]

I love this forum! No matter what post I read I learn some new esoterica. Full grain vs top grain. Hide tanning techniques. Now zipper gap settings/repair. The more I think I know, the more I'm amazed by the cumulative knowledge of all those here on TFL.

There's a great deal of useful info. dispensed here for those who choose to seek enjoyment, knowledge, and share among like-minded enthusiasts vs. furthering a personal or collective crusade or agenda. I sincerely thank you, Thor, for consistently being of the former member type who possesses the intellect and positive energy to see what my post was really about and for consistently reminding me that no matter how predictable some member types can be, there also is a predictability (and a very flattering predictability it is) among those who are here solely for enjoyment and who follow "Paddy's Rules," and that there is also a vast, silent majority who are probably just like you. I'm personally delighted that the awareness of the subject and expository prose of setting zipper gap is something you chose to find beneficial, which was the intention of my post.

 

[HPA Rep]

Absolutely. BTW- I've tried that very repair - crimping with pliers- on my Aero Hookless zipper. It works for a while, but eventually the problem comes back. Just my experience.

Absolutely, the problem can come back again and again, which is likely caused by the effects of zipping it up and down, in which the normal outward and upward and downward forces normally applied to affect opening and closing the zipper also opens up the gap on repro zippers made of softer metal than those they are copies of. But I emphasize that even zippers made of stronger metals are still susceptible to problems involving gap setting, though to a lesser extent.

If the zipper teeth are undamaged and a zipper is stuck and unable to be made functional, the slider vis-a-vis gap setting is almost certainly the problem, which can typically be fixed once it is determined whether the gap is too wide or too narrow. If the slider is made of harder metals, then the fix will likely stay fixed for longer durations.

I recall a personal friend who purchased a first-generation ELC Roadstar MC jacket from us back in 1992; these early Roadstar jackets were outfitting with mainstream, large-size Talon zippers made by Talon from hard metal. My friend found his zipper totally frozen and immovable with the jacket on, and he was so desperate, he pondered cutting it off, but eventually he slowly wriggled himself out of it, then called me up. He brought the jacket over to me and I could see the gap was off, in this case too tight, so I incrementally opened up the gap until the desired space was achieved and he has never had any issues since.

I've purchased a fair number of vintage military jackets with frozen zippers over the years, and at prices reflecting the zipper status and its relation to the overall value of the item, only to re-set the gap and create a nice collectible with its original zipper still intact and then fully functional.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Well..if you hadn't of added the last paragraph of your previous post, many of us might have bought your explanation of intent.
However, with that, you may be assuming a bit much about a silent majority.

 

[HPA Rep]

Well..if you hadn't of added the last paragraph of your previous post, many of us might have bought your explanation of intent.
However, with that, you may be assuming a bit much about a silent majority.

Sheer member numbers vs. posters would indicate that the vast majority are indeed silent and we will never know what they think, and some of these materialize as PM's and as customers who say they read the forum but never post. If, say, 20 members are very vocal on topics, it only makes a statement about those inclined to be vocal, yet lurkers and introverts tend to be most of our customers.

The last paragraph is an inescapable observation that can be supported and which has been the subject of several exchanges between myself, head bartenders Nathan and Scott, as well as other members. It had relevance to what the OP posted, though as a side issue to the several paragraphs I wrote that preceded it which addressed the OP's primary problem and offered a resolution (likely something few others know about yet could greatly benefit from). You and some of the more predictable members pounced on the one paragraph and ignored the others in predictable form.

 

[Sloan1874]

What are we to make of people who do not post but return time and again? Are they masochists who hate what they read but can't tear themselves away, or should it be interpreted, perhaps, as tacit approval/support?

 

[devilish]

No, I think it just means they read but don't post. Then there are those that become members for whatever reason and then completely forget they've ever done so.

 

[Plumbline]

Have to say my experience of modern repro hoookless zippers ( Aero are not the only ones who fit them ) has been poor ( 2 jackets ... both sold on ... there's nothing worse than a jacket that unzips from the bottom up when it's not supposed to or is so difficult to get right that you end up with your hands in your pockets forcing the sides of your jacket together in he pishing rain with the zip undone because it's too feckin fiddly to do up ) They look very cool with their grommets and weirdy old world construction but are difficult to operate IMHO and about as robust as a chocolate teapot ( I understood that grommet thing TBH many vintage jackets have them and they are an authentic feature ... but not the hookless thing ).

The No. 10 zipper from Riri, Talon and YKK are a MUCH more practical and chunky solution ( especially on M/C jackets) ... a No. 8 zipper is almost as good if you want a neater puller. I don't have particularly big or clumsy fingers but if I have to stare at my crotch to try and get the male part in the female part ( yeah I know how it sounds ... fnar fnar ... but anyone who has stood trying to zip up their leather jacket before going out fumbling and cursing with a No. 6 Talon or a feckin hookless ba***rd will know exactly how frustrating that feels). Never had a problem with the "Aero" No. 6 YKK ( other than the size) and the "A" chunky zipper from the Aero knitting needle company which I had on three of my Highwayman jackets was bulletproof ! The No. 8 Riri is an OUTSTANDING piece of machinery so far ( 2 years) .... the No. 10 YKK on my Vansons ( one way and two way) are AWESOME ( the two way zip is 20 years old and you'd never know). The No 10 Talon on my Bike jacket ( 30 years old) is Stunning .. no fiddling .. slot it in and zip it up. No lost teeth, no bent bits .... just bulletproof.

Maybe I'm just a function over fashion type of person ( the Hookless zippers' authenticity has been clarified a number of times by the resident expert in this area who has forgotten more about zippers than I'll ever know). The hookless zipper has a certain look but there are MUCH better zippers out there than hookless and No. 6 Talons .. even NOS ones Charles's advice re resetting the gap is good. I have no idea if it works or how to do it ... all I feel is that it really shouldn't need to be done

 

[Stand By]

What are we to make of people who do not post but return time and again? Are they masochists who hate what they read but can't tear themselves away, or should it be interpreted, perhaps, as tacit approval/support?

I would say that we will never know. They could be asked but, by their very nature, they wouldn't reply!
And that is their right to do so.

 

[Harris HTM]

I don't have a lot of experience with talons in Aero jackets as my only zipped jacket (30's HB) is relatively new. But I remember four years ago buying a really thick wool cardigan (Fred Perry) equipped with a Talon zipper. From day one the zipper was a real pain to handle.

 

[HPA Rep]

I need to do a search here and find my writings rather recently on repro zippers. The main issue is that these are all made in a dissimilar form and with differing metals than what was originally done when the vintage counterparts were made in vast quantities for mass consumption. One must realize that the vintage zips were once the YKK's of their era and that making vintage-style zips now can only be done affordably by using different manufacturing techniques and metals; if these zips are to be made as well as the vintage zippers, they would need to become mass produced as YKK's are and sold openly on the market and available everywhere and to anyone or they would cost as much or more than the jackets they are installed in.

The majority of these repro zippers work fine, but the Hookless types in about the last year or so we've seen in ELC jackets and some BR jackets have required the gap to be re-set, which we've done before allowing them to be sold to consumers and the zippers all are great thereafter; no one has contacted us complain, but we may not hear of some problems. I personally own two jackets with the Hookless zips: a BR B-2 from 2004/2005, and an ELC Werber A-2 from 2007 - the zippers have performed flawlessly.

But do please realize that any of these repro zips can have issues (Talon, Hookless, Crown, etc.), the majority of which will be related to gap setting that will either be easily fixed via a re-set of the gap or by replacing the slider. This is a very, very small percentage of the total made, though, as stated, the Hookless types in recent times have been disproportionately impacted.

We end up either having no repro zippers or we live with the issue in order to maintain the full, vintage aesthetic. Some customers of ours do indeed end up preferring to forgo the vintage aesthetics for something more reliable, but I sincerely doubt they are ever going to reflect a majority and I don't believe the various brands of jackets now utilizing the repro zips will cease this practice in order to gain greater zip reliability; most consumers of these products prefer the vintage aesthetic with warts and all, as do I.

Also, as stated in this thread, even vintage zips can suffer from various failures, including having the gap become too wide or narrow, and the vintage zips can often have their gap re-set to get them working well again. Vintage zips, however, often can suffer from rotten cotton, which I have found to be the biggest issue with them, allowing either the teeth to tear away or the bottom ends to fray and come apart.

How many of us prefer the full, vintage aesthetic in their vintage-style jackets and would accept a sometimes-flawed repro zipper vs. a contemporary style of greater reliability?