Pre-owned? Translate this into English please.

[sheeplady]

I would say that seems to be the general consensus here Miss Sheeplady but Mr.Dean did have a good point none the less ala posts 15&16

I wonder with the cars if it's less to take away the stigma of a used car and more to take away the stigma of a used car dealer who is selling you a car. There's very few professions we so strongly associate negatively as "used car dealer"- in fact, it's one of a few professions I can think of that is used as a descriptor and definition of something negative: "I trust him like I'd trust a used car dealer."

The only other profession I can think of that's spoken about in the same way is prostitution.

 

[LizzieMaine]

In a way it's the same business. Or at least the end result is always the same.

 

[nice hat dude!]

That was hilarious Miss Lizzie,the only difference is that the prostitute knows more about the product she's selling.

 

[tonyb]

I *loathe* the word "vintage." Absolutely loathe it, except when applied to wine. And I don't drink wine.

I got nothin' against "vintage," except when its used to describe anything made more recently than the 1970s, and even then I think it's stretching things a bit. Anything made after I was of legal drinking age is just "used."

I've read somewhere that "antique" has unfavorable connotations among the youngsters, but that "vintage" is viewed much more positively. This may go some way toward explaining the explosion in the term's usage in recent years. I use it mostly to distinguish the "real McCoy" old stuff from the "retro" reproductions. But I accept that this may be a losing battle as well. It appears that more and more people use the words interchangeably, and popular usage eventually trumps, whether I like it or not.

 

[tonyb]

I wonder with the cars if it's less to take away the stigma of a used car and more to take away the stigma of a used car dealer who is selling you a car. There's very few professions we so strongly associate negatively as "used car dealer"- in fact, it's one of a few professions I can think of that is used as a descriptor and definition of something negative: "I trust him like I'd trust a used car dealer." ...

Probably right.

Used car dealers, as a group, once had a reputation (deserved in some cases) for misrepresenting their merchandise. You know, going ahead and letting a would-be buyer believe the car had 42K on it, rather than its actual 142K, or quieting a noisy transmission with sawdust, or administering an overdose of some sort of sealing stuff to "fix" a major coolant leak.

How many of us recall the poster featuring a photo of RM Nixon that read "Would You Buy a Used Car from this Man?" (I believe the credit for that joke goes to Mort Sahl.) Of course, this was back in the day when a commonly heard phrase was "When you buy a used car, you're just buying someone else's problems."

 

[St. Louis]

Interesting, LizzieMaine and tonyb. When I was a teenager "vintage" specifically meant, 1930s and 1940s, and that's how I still think of the word today. I think now it has taken on a different meaning--anything and everything is vintage. I guess it's at least better than calling everything older than 1995 'MadMen,' which is a practice that makes my teeth feel as though someone has scraped them across a blackboard (which is another thing that has become vintage.) Oh, how about "rare MadMen." I woyldn't even know how to translate that.

LM, do you object to it because it sounds pretentious or just because its meaning has become so diffuse?

 

[tonyb]

Interesting, LizzieMaine and tonyb. When I was a teenager "vintage" specifically meant, 1930s and 1940s, and that's how I still think of the word today. I think now it has taken on a different meaning--anything and everything is vintage. I guess it's at least better than calling everything older than 1995 'MadMen,' which is a practice that makes my teeth feel as though someone has scraped them across a blackboard (which is another thing that has become vintage.) Oh, how about "rare MadMen." I woyldn't even know how to translate that.

LM, do you object to it because it sounds pretentious or just because its meaning has become so diffuse?

Would inquiring as to your own vintage be asking too much, St. Louis?

I share your irritation with sellers attempting to enhance the desirability of what is in reality just ordinary used stuff by attaching whatever pop culture reference to it that might be stretched enough to just maybe make fit. Lotsa sizzle, not much steak.

I prefer "vintage" to "classic," though. It seems less arbitrary, in most instances. After all, we can agree (I think) that a 1965 model car is indeed a vintage 1965 automobile. But whether or not it is "classic" gets into much murkier territory.

 

[randooch]

I *loathe* the word "vintage." Absolutely loathe it, except when applied to wine. And I don't drink wine.

You may be missing out.

 

[LizzieMaine]

LM, do you object to it because it sounds pretentious or just because its meaning has become so diffuse?

I can't stand how it's used as a catch-all term for a supposed subculture, with all that that entails. There are plenty of kids who go around in "vintage" clothes, but they have no more in common with me and I have no more in common with them than I do with the man in the moon. I live the way I've always lived. I'm not "into vintage."

I also can't stand the way it's used as a cudgel around here, either by A criticising B for "not being vintage enough" or B criticising A for "thinking they're so vintage." As far as I'm concerned, both sides of that argument can take "vintage," roll it up in a tight little ball, and stow it far and deep. That kind of stuff is for fourteen year olds, not grown adults.

 

[LizzieMaine]

You may be missing out.

Alas. But I was raised a grape-juice Methodist, and some things you just don't leave behind.

 

[Guttersnipe]

Middle-class insecurity is the essence of marketing.

. . . and it has been for going on near one-hundred years. In fact, middle-class insecurity very vintage . . . and I ain't talkin' wine!

 

[LizzieMaine]

. . . and it has been for going on near one-hundred years. In fact, middle-class insecurity very vintage . . . and I ain't talkin' wine!

Exactly why I loathe the term "vintage." It's used around here in exactly this way whenever any pointed criticism is made of contemporary culture: "Ah, but XXXXX went on in the Era, so it's VINTAGE." Doesn't make a dime's bit of difference -- I would have been just as disdainful of it in 1912, 1942, or 1962 as I am in 2012. "Vintageness" is irrelevant to the issue.

 

[SHOWSOMECLASS]

Sellers of antiques call it "character" when you are buying, you see it as damage.
Its all marketing, perspective and in some cases those who are evading being contrite regarding the items condition.
Always ask specific questions and when in doubt request extra pictures.

 

[SHOWSOMECLASS]

Its all perspective.
That is why bargains can be found when items are listed in the wrong category or not specifically described.

 

[Guttersnipe]

Exactly why I loathe the term "vintage." It's used around here in exactly this way whenever any pointed criticism is made of contemporary culture: "Ah, but XXXXX went on in the Era, so it's VINTAGE." Doesn't make a dime's bit of difference -- I would have been just as disdainful of it in 1912, 1942, or 1962 as I am in 2012. "Vintageness" is irrelevant to the issue.

I guess my sarcasm wasn't as obvious as I'd thought . . .

Regarding this thread, I think folks would do well the lighten up. Getting worked up about semantics is kinda fools errand.

 

[tonyb]

There's a value-neutral definition of "vintage" (used as an adjective), though, and that's what I have in mind when I use it. It means "of an age, era, epoch, ... "

Alas, I suspect it is more common for it to imply, above and beyond something's age, its superiority to not only more recent stuff but also other artifacts of its own era, and often of its own type. In my mind, just because a hat, say, is "vintage" doesn't make it more desirable for that reason alone (although, in the case of hats, their superiority to recently made ones is almost a given), but only that it dates from a particular time.

But again, popular usage trumps, whether I or anyone else likes it or not.

 

[SHOWSOMECLASS]

Your post was not wasted on me. You are totally in line w/ this post.

 

[rocketeer]

I *loathe* the word "vintage." Absolutely loathe it, except when applied to wine. And I don't drink wine.

Ahh Lizzie We have something in common, loathing Vintage but applying it to wine. But I do like it when applied to pre(as in 'Before') 1930 cars here in England also.

 

[St. Louis]

Tonyb, you fresh thing, a lady never reveals her age! Let's just say that I was in that first wave of people who started wearing 1930s clothes. That may or may not give you an idea. I didn't realize that was supposed to be a "thing" (or maybe it wasn't a "thing" back then) but when I found a box of old 1930s housekeeping uniforms in a basement, I realized that they were far more beautiful than anything I could possibly find in department stores & the rest is history, so to speak.

Lizzie, I had no idea that there was this subculture of judging other people for being too or not enough vintage. I'm sorta isolated here in the wilds of south city St. Louis, and don't know a single other person living this -- well, let's call it Neo-traditionalist way of life (as per Miss Jo) so I wasn't fully aware of the implications.

In response to Mr. or Miss Guttersnipe, I think chatting about semantics is always enjoyable & interesting; I didn't see this conversation as particularly heavy or snarky. I came from the stitch-county side of 19th century reenacting & actually find the folks on this forum quite open and welcoming to various interpretations. Slightly off topic here, but that's what I like so much about living in the 30s/40s (in my home & clothes) -- no one criticizes me, at least not to my face. In the "living history" hobby the gradations of authenticity were much more strictly policed, and of course there's not much possibility of living that life in the middle of a city like St. Louis.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Lizzie, I had no idea that there was this subculture of judging other people for being too or not enough vintage. I'm sorta isolated here in the wilds of south city St. Louis, and don't know a single other person living this -- well, let's call it Neo-traditionalist way of life (as per Miss Jo) so I wasn't fully aware of the implications.

I think it's more an internet forum thing than a real-life thing -- there isn't any "vintage subculture" where I live either, and I'm glad of it. Online, though, you'll run into more than enough people who'll either tell you that you're NOT DOING IT RIGHT, YOU CAN'T MIX PERIODS or WHY DO YOU WANT TO DO THAT, THAT WASN'T ANY KIND OF GOLDEN ERA, YOU USE A COMPUTER SO YOU AREN'T *REALLY* VINTAGE and worse yet they'll think they're the very first person in the history of the world to ever raise such points. Anyone who looks at what they do as something more than just the buying and selling of old clothes can expect to hear this stuff directed at them if they stick around the forums long enough. It's gotten so when anyone says the word "vintage" I reach for my pistol.