Pre 1940s Stetson Westerns

[PabloElFlamenco]

Well, Mr. Alan, about all of the hats on the first page are full-fledged cowboy hats and some of them have something close to a 7-inch crown height (unbashed, of course). These hats are, in all of their dimensions, way too large to be considered "city-town-contemporary" (how do you call that?) fedoras. Then there's some that appear more in "open road" dimensions, I say appear, because it's difficult to get a proper idea of the scale on the screen.
As to looking out of place, well, I agree totally with you. However, in their quality of "western cow-assistent" hats, they don't look any more "out of place" than, say, ...well... many kinds of clothes seen every day in central London or any other European city; and certainly not "ridiculously". But that's all, pretty much, a matter of "perception", ..naturally... I do wear my cowboy hats in suburban Belgium (the center of Europe), and most certainly must look "ridiculous" to some, but ... I've -to a large extent- outgrown the "approval" stage.
Nice sunny day
Paul

 

[avedwards]

Something like this looks almost like a fedora. The crown looks high but that was common on 1930s hats. Other than the bow, how is that different from a fedora?

As for looking ridiculous in Europe, I mean that a fedora worn with a suit will attract far less attention than a Western with a cattleman crease. Possibly because the fedora was once worn here, but the Western never was. Not that I say it shouldn't be worn, however I would personally draw the line for what I'm comfortable with. I can live with a certain amount of stupid comments and insults, but there comes a point when it would get too much.

 

[PabloElFlamenco]

Mr. Alan, I think the hat you show is, indeed, very close if not fully a "fedora" (please, "others" chip in here!).

And, as to feeling comfortable with a hat ...argh... it's pretty much the "story of my life", mind you. I fully agree with you, "we ain't cowboys" (etc. etc.) and, yes, I agree it's important to feel comfy in all respects. And a gentleman

 

[avedwards]

However, the hat was posted by Dinerman towards the bottom of page one of this thread. Perhaps he will be able to shed some light onto this.

I agree, if you feel comfortable in something then wear it. I personally prefer to copy the look of someone like Bogart, so I go for a grey fedora and dark suit with trenchcoat (at least when I have an occaision to dress up). Film noir and Raymond Chandler was what got me into hats after all. A Western just doesn't fit in for me, but for some it does.

 

[Dinerman]

Is it just me, or are some of the hats on the first page nothing more than wide-brimmed fedoras with frayed bows? They have fedora height crowns and creases, so what distinguishes them from a city hat other than the frayed bow?

Interesting thread though, especially since Westerns don't exist in England and would just look ridiculously out of place.

It's all about the crown blocking.

 

[feltfan]

I think the distinction between cowboy hat and city hat back in the
day is a bit tough for us to figure out. Lately I've been thinking it's
felt weight. If you look at old pictures, it's not uncommon to see
men with "western" looking hats in places like New Jersey. Kettle
curl, like this one:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showpost.php?p=885721&postcount=7
or this one:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showpost.php?p=811424&postcount=10
or this one:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showpost.php?p=885724&postcount=9

They look like Western hats to us today, but have a felt weight (speaking
as someone who has held only one of these hats, but guessing) we
would associate with a dress fedora. I think the definitions were not
quite as hard and fast back then.

 

[jimmy the lid]

They look like Western hats to us today, but have a felt weight (speaking
as someone who has held only one of these hats, but guessing) we
would associate with a dress fedora. I think the definitions were not
quite as hard and fast back then.

I've only held one of these myself, but what you say definitely rings true for the first hat you listed (my Stetson No. 1 Quality). It certainly is more of a dress weight than a western weight -- even though it is western in style.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[avedwards]

It's all about the crown blocking.

How's the crown on that particular hat blocked differently to a fedora? It looks like it still used a normal block to get an open crowned hat

 

[rlk]

There is a wide range of styles and some would overlap typical Fedoras in form. The functional aspects create the style(even if they cease to be important)protection from the sun with a wide brim, temperature regulation with the higher crown and a certain degree of toughness for outdoor conditions. Other elements are to the individuals taste or desire to be different or the opposite,to be associated with a particular group.

 

[Dinerman]

How's the crown on that particular hat blocked differently to a fedora? It looks like it still used a normal block to get an open crowned hat

Of the non- 7", wide curled brim variety, like these two, you could never put a standard fedora crease in it and have it look right. The first one, the crown is much too low to have anything but the shallowest of dents while still allowing for head room. Both have untapered crowns, but the dome of the top does not start until almost the very top, and the top is nearly flat. This means putting in a center dent doesn't look quite "right". Although the brim on the second is flanged (the first one has a flat brim), it's flanged slightly differently, and doesn't really hold a snap.

Granted, the blocking on mine and ScottF's hat is different, but the flanging and trimming appear to be the same.

Then there's the matter of trimming and bow-work. A open road counts as a western style because of it's thin ribbon, even though the blocking and flanging on the old ones is the same as a fedora.

 

[avedwards]

Of the non- 7", wide curled brim variety, like these two, you could never put a standard fedora crease in it and have it look right. The first one, the crown is much too low to have anything but the shallowest of dents while still allowing for head room. Both have untapered crowns, but the dome of the top does not start until almost the very top, and the top is nearly flat. This means putting in a center dent doesn't look quite "right". Although the brim on the second is flanged (the first one has a flat brim), it's flanged slightly differently, and doesn't really hold a snap.

Granted, the blocking on mine and ScottF's hat is different, but the flanging and trimming appear to be the same.

Then there's the matter of trimming and bow-work. A open road counts as a western style because of it's thin ribbon, even though the blocking and flanging on the old ones is the same as a fedora.

Fair enough, they're Westerns and not fedoras. Just some similarities between the two. However, a wide-brimmed fedora wouldn't look too out of place in the American West in the first half of the twentieth century would it?

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Feltfan: THANKS!!!

It seems they were making "Open Road" style hats way before Stetson landed on that wonderful model name.

 

[ScottF]

Of the non- 7", wide curled brim variety, like these two, you could never put a standard fedora crease in it and have it look right. The first one, the crown is much too low to have anything but the shallowest of dents while still allowing for head room. Both have untapered crowns, but the dome of the top does not start until almost the very top, and the top is nearly flat. This means putting in a center dent doesn't look quite "right". Although the brim on the second is flanged (the first one has a flat brim), it's flanged slightly differently, and doesn't really hold a snap.

Granted, the blocking on mine and ScottF's hat is different, but the flanging and trimming appear to be the same.

Then there's the matter of trimming and bow-work. A open road counts as a western style because of it's thin ribbon, even though the blocking and flanging on the old ones is the same as a fedora.

You put this so perfectly. I wondered the same thing as avedwards. Then I picked up a 1940's Stetson that looked almost exactly like an Open Road...until I tried to bash it like a fedora and snap the brim.

The black hat of mine is a similar situation. Great hat, but it tapers in like the western it is, and the brim is best left unsnapped.

 

[jimmy the lid]

WOW!!! Just caught up to Feltfan's catalogue posting from yesterday. Fantastic! Thanks for taking the time to post all of that. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Cheers,
JtL

 

[ScottF]

WOW!!! Just caught up to Feltfan's catalogue posting from yesterday. Fantastic! Thanks for taking the time to post all of that. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Cheers,
JtL

So...when are we going to see a pic of you in your old black Stetson? You aren't afraid of going cowboy on us, are you?

 

[carouselvic]

So...when are we going to see a pic of you in your old black Stetson? You aren't afraid of going cowboy on us, are you?

Scott, he likes to be called Tex. TLH

 

[PabloElFlamenco]

Fair enough, they're Westerns and not fedoras. Just some similarities between the two. However, a wide-brimmed fedora wouldn't look too out of place in the American West in the first half of the twentieth century would it?

I recall having read a thread somewhere wherein the history of the western hat in fact ... started with "regular city hats" i.e. people wore ... whatever they had! (at the very least until that moment in time when John B. Stetson is supposed to have "invented" the cowboy hat, and the production of that in full swing).

In that sense, of course, the latter part of your statement rings reasonable enough.

Not that most hats, "in the American West in the first half of the twentieth century" WERE fedoras; certainly not in the latter part of the nineteenth century, they weren't.

Add to that my perception (which may NOT be fact, you tell me!) that the "cowboy hat" seems, in large part, to have been a direct offspring of Hollywood (and resulting business, lore, clothes, myths, industries, music) ... the cowboy-industrial complex, why, in fact, exclude ...politics!?

 

[ScottF]

I recall having read a thread somewhere wherein the history of the western hat in fact ... started with "regular city hats" i.e. people wore ... whatever they had! (at the very least until that moment in time when John B. Stetson is supposed to have "invented" the cowboy hat, and the production of that in full swing).

In that sense, of course, the latter part of your statement rings reasonable enough.

Not that most hats, "in the American West in the first half of the twentieth century" WERE fedoras; certainly not in the latter part of the nineteenth century, they weren't.

Add to that my perception (which may NOT be fact, you tell me!) that the "cowboy hat" seems, in large part, to have been a direct offspring of Hollywood (and resulting business, lore, clothes, myths, industries, music) ... the cowboy-industrial complex, why, in fact, exclude ...politics!?

Watch "The Alamo" - you will see all sorts of dress hats being worn by the defenders.

 

[avedwards]

I recall having read a thread somewhere wherein the history of the western hat in fact ... started with "regular city hats" i.e. people wore ... whatever they had! (at the very least until that moment in time when John B. Stetson is supposed to have "invented" the cowboy hat, and the production of that in full swing).

In that sense, of course, the latter part of your statement rings reasonable enough.

Not that most hats, "in the American West in the first half of the twentieth century" WERE fedoras; certainly not in the latter part of the nineteenth century, they weren't.

Add to that my perception (which may NOT be fact, you tell me!) that the "cowboy hat" seems, in large part, to have been a direct offspring of Hollywood (and resulting business, lore, clothes, myths, industries, music) ... the cowboy-industrial complex, why, in fact, exclude ...politics!?

I recall seeing a lot of photos of men in bowler and homburg type hats in the 1860s in my text book last year when we studied the American West.

If I went to say, Texas in the 1930s and decided to wear a Stetson Whippet I'm sure I wouldn't get the strange looks I might get these days. That was my point about fedoras being normal enough in the West in the past. Perhaps someone even has pictures of fedoras being worn alongside Westerns?

 

[Dinerman]

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