Please Explain High End Selvedge Jeans to Me

[Seb Lucas]

Actually, just saw those Freddie's, they I get. Maybe I'm in after all. Perhaps I should get a pair. Do they fit true to size?

 

[majormajor]

Actually, just saw those Freddie's, they I get. Maybe I'm in after all. Perhaps I should get a pair. Do they fit true to size?

Yup. Very close to size. Excellent jeans

 

[dr greg]

I'm confused, SELVAGE/SELVEDGE is just the finished edge of the fabric, and can have no effect on the broad area thereof....discussions of fabric weight, thread count etc are one thing, but what does the edge of the roll have to do with quality?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Yes, it f***ing does! Unfortunately, I can't arrange for a small biplane tugging a banner across the sky, but believe me - after a few months regular washing, 23oz jeans are JUST like regular jeans.

Where does the extra 10 Oz of weight go if the 23 Oz jeans are "exactly the same" as 14 Oz? Into the aether? Somewhere over the Persil? The extra weight was all "body" and not extra cotton per square metre?

This is getting into the realm of absurdity … I hate to say it but - AGAIN. Has Daz developed some wondrous cotton eating properties that only affect heavier weight selvedge denim? Or is that extra weight really only filler/"body"? (whatever on earth that might be!) I don't dispute that after washing (or wear) a fabric will become softer, but surely this is true for every fabric? Around the waist especially jeans tend to become more comfortable with wear. Are we to believe that heavier weight twill cottons are differentially affected by washing, specifically in terms of fabric weight?

They may look and feel the same (superficially), and develop patina and fade in the same manner, but the 23 Oz fabric MUST still be heavier, or it's not actually 23 Oz fabric, but 14 Oz fabric bulked up with some sort of stiffener/additive that is rapidly washed out of the fabric. It's not rocket science! 23 oz fabric weighs 23 Oz to the square metre/yard (depending on the country … essentially the same anyways). 14 oz fabric ditto: less than 2/3 the weight. it's simply not possible that these are exactly the same after a few washes, unless the two are really the same before the washes. Cotton doesn't simply disappear in the washing machine.

bk

 

[Baron Kurtz]

It doesn't, of course, but it's good marketing. I guess with selvedge side seams you can be sure the fabric was cut on the bias, but the value of this to the general punter, I'm not sure.

I'm confused, SELVAGE/SELVEDGE is just the finished edge of the fabric, and can have no effect on the broad area thereof....discussions of fabric weight, thread count etc are one thing, but what does the edge of the roll have to do with quality?

 

[schitzo]

...

If you subscribe to the bizarre "don't wash 'em" mantra (surely only supported by blokes without a wife/girlfriend - or friends), then yes, they look cool - and stink ( I was at a gig the other night, trying to see the band from behind a fat bloke - the smell from his unwashed jeans sort of crept up on me, but once I got it, it was evil. But I bet he couldn't smell it..:eeek:.).

haha I would like to believe this did happen to you MM as picturing it makes me


But I'm afraid the unhygienic stink thing is an unadulterated crock of doughnuts! FTR I don't know anyone with a better sense of smell than me. I don't smoke, but literally if somebody sparks up a joint within a 500 metre radius I will know it, 50 metres and I can give you a precise breakdown of exactly what it is they're smoking.
If I thought for one moment that my jeans smelt bad I would have been mortified, and yes I did smell test them on more than one occasion - there was never a issue. For everyday wear in winter - I wasn't doing any manual labour in them - I never once came close to breaking into a sweat. Yet even on those occasions when I do sweat, typically it's not my legs and arse that perspire. I sent mine to the dry cleaners not because they smelt bad, but more from an illogical sense of obligation - it somehow didn't feel right to not clean them at all for such a long period. But whether they needed cleaning or not I really couldn't say.

IMO the thing MM's talking about is an affliction lazy fat so and sos the world over suffer (inflict on others may be more apt), irrespective of their denim choices

 

[schitzo]

Where does the extra 10 Oz of weight go if the 23 Oz jeans are "exactly the same" as 14 Oz? Into the aether? Somewhere over the Persil? The extra weight was all "body" and not extra cotton per square metre?

This is getting into the realm of absurdity … I hate to say it but - AGAIN. Has Daz developed some wondrous cotton eating properties that only affect heavier weight selvedge denim? Or is that extra weight really only filler/"body"? (whatever on earth that might be!) I don't dispute that after washing (or wear) a fabric will become softer, but surely this is true for every fabric? Around the waist especially jeans tend to become more comfortable with wear. Are we to believe that heavier weight twill cottons are differentially affected by washing, specifically in terms of fabric weight?

They may look and feel the same (superficially), and develop patina and fade in the same manner, but the 23 Oz fabric MUST still be heavier, or it's not actually 23 Oz fabric, but 14 Oz fabric bulked up with some sort of stiffener/additive that is rapidly washed out of the fabric. It's not rocket science! 23 oz fabric weighs 23 Oz to the square metre/yard (depending on the country … essentially the same anyways). 14 oz fabric ditto: less than 2/3 the weight. it's simply not possible that these are exactly the same after a few washes, unless the two are really the same before the washes. Cotton doesn't simply disappear in the washing machine.

bk

hear hear!

 

[Smithy]

Where does the extra 10 Oz of weight go if the 23 Oz jeans are "exactly the same" as 14 Oz? Into the aether? Somewhere over the Persil? The extra weight was all "body" and not extra cotton per square metre?

This is getting into the realm of absurdity … I hate to say it but - AGAIN. Has Daz developed some wondrous cotton eating properties that only affect heavier weight selvedge denim? Or is that extra weight really only filler/"body"? (whatever on earth that might be!) I don't dispute that after washing (or wear) a fabric will become softer, but surely this is true for every fabric? Around the waist especially jeans tend to become more comfortable with wear. Are we to believe that heavier weight twill cottons are differentially affected by washing, specifically in terms of fabric weight?

They may look and feel the same (superficially), and develop patina and fade in the same manner, but the 23 Oz fabric MUST still be heavier, or it's not actually 23 Oz fabric, but 14 Oz fabric bulked up with some sort of stiffener/additive that is rapidly washed out of the fabric. It's not rocket science! 23 oz fabric weighs 23 Oz to the square metre/yard (depending on the country … essentially the same anyways). 14 oz fabric ditto: less than 2/3 the weight. it's simply not possible that these are exactly the same after a few washes, unless the two are really the same before the washes. Cotton doesn't simply disappear in the washing machine.

bk

Well said BK. Once we'd reached the point of washing machines magically eating ounces off of a fabric's weight this thread had passed from the interesting to the ridiculous.

Those Freddie's look rather good.

 

[ButteMT61]

Don't forget to look on eBay. There's lots of good Selvedge/Selvage/Self Edge stuff. I can't contribute more to the missing fabric. Although, I might buy some stock in starch making companies. If there's really a good 8 pounds of it in each pair, that's a lot of return lol

 

[OneEyeMan]

I'm confused, SELVAGE/SELVEDGE is just the finished edge of the fabric, and can have no effect on the broad area thereof....discussions of fabric weight, thread count etc are one thing, but what does the edge of the roll have to do with quality?

Finally, the good Dr says what I've been thinking all along.
I just didn't want to say it for fear of getting my head bit off!
At best, selvedge keeps the ends of the fabric from fraying.
But who cares any way, the edges never show.
The real conversation is heavy wt vs light fabric wt denim.
This whole thread is extremely ridiculous.
If you people want to spend upwards of $300 or more on a simple pair of jeans, knock your socks off.
If you believe that more expensive denim means better quality and helps you sleep at night, so be it.
I'm happy for you.
As for me, I have much better things to spend my hard earned money on.
Lenny

 

[Grayland]

If you're looking for heavyweight denim at a very reasonable price, then take a look at:

http://blueowlworkshop.blogspot.com/2012/12/unbranded-21oz-heavyweight-selvedge-in.html

21 oz denim for $110 US. Normally Blue Owl will hem jeans to your desired length using a chain stitch machine, but the thickness of this denim was busting the needles.

I can't imagine paying $200, $300, or even $400 for jeans, but for people that drop $1000 on a third A-2 jacket; paying a little extra for higher quality denim seems a no-brainer.

 

[ButteMT61]

Finally, the good Dr says what I've been thinking all along.I just didn't want to say it for fear of getting my head bit off!At best, selvedge keeps the ends of the fabric from fraying.But who cares any way, the edges never show.The real conversation is heavy wt vs light fabric wt denim.This whole thread is extremely ridiculous.If you people want to spend upwards of $300 or more on a simple pair of jeans, knock your socks off.If you believe that more expensive denim means better quality and helps you sleep at night, so be it.I'm happy for you.As for me, I have much better things to spend my hard earned money on.Lenny

Well, you can say the same thing for most of wat we buy and discuss here. Up to you whether you want to play. The thread may be dopey, but expensive gear is up to the buyer to decide on it's worth.

 

[pauleway]

Well, you can say the same thing for most of wat we buy and discuss here. Up to you whether you want to play. The thread may be dopey, but expensive gear is up to the buyer to decide on it's worth.

Leather jackets - I'm in, High end guitars - I'm in, Denim jeans (they're just pants) - Im out, I just don't get it!![huh]

 

[cordwangler]

Who knew we had a choice what to wear/buy? Cheers, Lenny, thanks for your patience! ;-)

 

[injunjack]

May I testify...

I have several heavier selvegde jeans, from 18oz to 23. More is ridiculous IMHO. I also have some IH Hickory Stripe loggers that are 16oz.
Also have some lightweight around 13,5-14 oz selvedge jeans. And non-selvegde.

The Denim doesn't go away with washes, LOL. It just get softer, different denim gets different type of softness. IH 21/23 gets softer but never soft if you know what I'm sayin'
Those loggers I have are on the other hand buttersoft, and after 2 years my 21oz IHs are also buttersoft. BUT they are not thin as say 14oz. denim is. They are not the same, in no way...

ATM I'm wearing my Lee 101 1966's, and I feel like I'm wearing pyjama trousers...not as loose as my pyjamas, but as thin and a bit "flimsy". And not to put these jeans down, these are nice cut and I like them alot.

About washing and care. It's up to everybody what they do with theis stuff right?
Sanforized IHs don't need soaking, but I always do to get rid of the starch. They still plenty stiff when new. They can stand by themselves....
Raw denim on the other hand needs soaking...to bed in the stitching, and to get rid of the shrinkage.
btw, I don't soak, I just toss them in washing machine inside out and wash them in 60°c, and preferrably twice to sort them out.

After that...I wear and wash when needed, which is for me about after every 3-4 weeks wear. (I don't wear same jeans straight 4 weeks but rotate 4 pairs...) Just wash them inside out.
IF you need to get those nice fades, just wear them 2-4 weeks straight and then wash. In that time all the creases have settled and the fading process in long run will reflect this.

Just my observations and 2€cents, gentlemen.....

 

[Seb Lucas]

I don't smoke, but literally if somebody sparks up a joint within a 500 metre radius I will know it, 50 metres and I can give you a precise breakdown of exactly what it is they're smoking.

That's too funny - not only do you have a preternatural sense of smell, you're the Sherlock Holmes of hooch.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

It comes with living in London. The streets are awash in weed.

 

[majormajor]

.
This whole thread is extremely ridiculous.
If you people want to spend upwards of $300 or more on a simple pair of jeans, knock your socks off.
If you believe that more expensive denim means better quality and helps you sleep at night, so be it.
I'm happy for you.
As for me, I have much better things to spend my hard earned money on.
Lenny

As I said right at the start - this is a Troll thread - started by you, and now you say it's "extremely ridiculous".

You don't believe jeans are worth paying money for. Fair enough, so why ask the question?

And we are the stupid ones for bothering to answer.

I would suggest that this thread is closed

 

[Seb Lucas]

I don't know about that, Major. Lenny is certainly being a bit harsh but it is possible to be trying to understand why people like certain things from a perspective of robust skepticism. That's kind of healthy. I'm skeptical about much of what I buy myself, let alone the choices others make. As long as it isn't abusive or vile in tone, who cares? I've learned a thing or two from you by disagreeing, Major, and I think I've benefited from that. And sometimes you don't realize you've come over as a shmo until someone calls it.

 

[cordwangler]

I don't think it's trolling really. I've lost count of the number of times FL posters chime in with 'I'd never pay more than x bucks' for whatever garment is under discussion, since I started looking at this site in 2007. It's not an interesting kind of comment and doesn't progress any discussion at all.