Phoenix Hat Company

[humanshoes]

It's not often I get to make a good old fashioned western hat so this BOP wannabe was a nice change. We're calling it the "Santiago". Named for it's destination city. Thanks F. Wear it in good health my friend and cowboy on!

 

[J Williams]

It's not often I get to make a good old fashioned western hat so this BOP wannabe was a nice change. We're calling it the "Santiago". Named for it's destination city. Thanks F. Wear it in good health my friend and cowboy on!
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Hmmm.. This has me thinking of a BRE clone..


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[Rmccamey]

I have one in the queue but with my new 100 and now this one, I'm rethinking my strategy!
Must stay focused...must stay focused...

It's not often I get to make a good old fashioned western hat so this BOP wannabe was a nice change. We're calling it the "Santiago". Named for it's destination city. Thanks F. Wear it in good health my friend and cowboy on!
View attachment 184280

Hmmm.. This has me thinking of a BRE clone..


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[humanshoes]

Hmmm.. This has me thinking of a BRE clone..


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I agree J, although, this hat didn't start out with the intention to clone any particular style. When I sent the this picture to the customer in Chile and asked him what style of crown bash and brim curl he wanted he replied, "Leave it just like it is." I was more than happy to comply with his choice.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I agree J, although, this hat didn't start out with the intention to clone any particular style. When I sent the this picture to the customer in Chile and asked him what style of crown bash and brim curl he wanted he replied, "Leave it just like it is." I was more than happy to comply with his choice.

When I first saw it I thought it still had the blocking cord tied on. It’s simple, but also compelling.

I’m glad to see that you’re going international too! You know, Arts buyer isn’t working out so it’s not too late for you to make an offer for VS!


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[humanshoes]

When I first saw it I thought it still had the blocking cord tied on. It’s simple, but also compelling.

I’m glad to see that you’re going international too! You know, Arts buyer isn’t working out so it’s not too late for you to make an offer for VS!


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I was surprised when he asked me to leave it with the flat brim and open crown, but I like it a lot and, of course, I want one for myself. It's the natural beaver, lightweight western body so it shows differently depending on the light source. The 2-cord ribbon is the bone color he requested, which is fortunate because it's all I could find anywhere, at any price.
Whoever purchases VS from Art is going to be well set up for a lifetime of making fine hats. He's made all the right moves when it comes to building that business and I hope it goes to someone who has the same level of dedication and passion for the craft. I admit I'll be envious of whoever the new buyer is. By the same token, I'm often envious of my happily married friends, but that doesn't mean I want to get married. Lifetime, full-time commitments run contrary to my current life philosophy.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I was surprised when he asked me to leave it with the flat brim and open crown, but I like it a lot and, of course, I want one for myself. It's the natural beaver, lightweight western body so it shows differently depending on the light source. The 2-cord ribbon is the bone color he requested, which is fortunate because it's all I could find anywhere, at any price.
Whoever purchases VS from Art is going to be well set up for a lifetime of making fine hats. He's made all the right moves when it comes to building that business and I hope it goes to someone who has the same level of dedication and passion for the craft. I admit I'll be envious of whoever the new buyer is. By the same token, I'm often envious of my happily married friends, but that doesn't mean I want to get married. Lifetime, full-time commitments run contrary to my current life philosophy.

I hear you. My brother-in-law owns a very successful business but I’ve noticed that the business owns him as much as he owns it. We’ve been on the ocean trolling for salmon and he spent half his time on the phone conducting business. I wish I had the income, but the responsibilities are crushing. I hope that someone competent and passionate takes over VS. I also hope it doesn’t become one of those $800 a hat shops.

We have a saying where I work that people promote to their level of incompetence...I’ve reached my limit.

The entrepreneurial impulse has passed me by, but I still think the crowdfunding option is appealing for the right person.


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[humanshoes]

I hear you. My brother-in-law owns a very successful business but I’ve noticed that the business owns him as much as he owns it. We’ve been on the ocean trolling for salmon and he spent half his time on the phone conducting business. I wish I had the income, but the responsibilities are crushing. I hope that someone competent and passionate takes over VS. I also hope it doesn’t become one of those $800 a hat shops.

We have a saying where I work that people promote to their level of incompetence...I’ve reached my limit.

The entrepreneurial impulse has passed me by, but I still think the crowdfunding option is appealing for the right person.


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I probably wouldn't get too good of a response if I set up crowdfunding for my retirement account. Hah!

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Hmmm.. This has me thinking of a BRE clone..

So I'm curious Justin, Rick or anyone who can answer or has an opinion; what modern day block would you use? A #52 just doesn't seem to get it. I pulled these two pics (1st hat is Alan's & the 2nd was mine).

 

[humanshoes]

So I'm curious Justin, Rick or anyone who can answer or has an opinion; what modern day block would you use? A #52 just doesn't seem to get it. I pulled these two pics (1st hat is Alan's & the 2nd was mine).

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I'd try a #81 for that hat. Straight sides with a more rounded dome than the #52. I think it would allow you to get that deeper center crease without sacrificing too much crown height.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

I'd try a #81 for that hat. Straight sides with a more rounded dome than the #52. I think it would allow you to get that deeper center crease without sacrificing too much crown height.

When I've tried it with hats that were blocked on a #52 you have to narrow down the center crease so much to get that slight reverse taper front & back, that you end up with too much taper thru the side dents.

 

[J Williams]

So I'm curious Justin, Rick or anyone who can answer or has an opinion; what modern day block would you use? A #52 just doesn't seem to get it. I pulled these two pics (1st hat is Alan's & the 2nd was mine).

View attachment 184510

View attachment 184511

I admit blocks are not something I have yet started to research. Is there not a reference or some blocks in existence that was used for them?

How do they work exactly? Are several of the same blocks used for different sizes?

Being a woodworker with a wide range of traditional hand tools as well as modern machinery like a 6 axis CNC if I knew the exact dimensions it wouldn’t be hard for me to make one.


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[deadlyhandsome]

I admit blocks are not something I have yet started to research. Is there not a reference or some blocks in existence that was used for them?

How do they work exactly? Are several of the same blocks used for different sizes?

Being a woodworker with a wide range of traditional hand tools as well as modern machinery like a 6 axis CNC if I knew the exact dimensions it wouldn’t be hard for me to make one.


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If you had a block could you easily duplicate it?

There are threads here on blocks. There are a lot of different blocks with their own profiles.


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[J Williams]

If you had a block could you easily duplicate it?

There are threads here on blocks. There are a lot of different blocks with their own profiles.


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I don’t see why not. Making the blank would be about an hour long task for me. I don’t have a 6 axis CNC machine myself but I have a shop that I work with who does. It wouldn’t be the cheapest thing in the world to have them mill it that’s why I asked the question of whether hat blocks are a ‘universal’ size that is utilized for most hat sizes or if you would need one for each size.

If the block is just a perfect cylinder like a deep bowl for example it could also be made on a lathe pretty easily.

I would be happy to look into it further


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[deadlyhandsome]

I don’t see why not. Making the blank would be about an hour long task for me. I don’t have a 6 axis CNC machine myself but I have a shop that I work with who does. It wouldn’t be the cheapest thing in the world to have them mill it that’s why I asked the question of whether hat blocks are a ‘universal’ size that is utilized for most hat sizes or if you would need one for each size.

If the block is just a perfect cylinder like a deep bowl for example it could also be made on a lathe pretty easily.

I would be happy to look into it further


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You need a block for each hat size. Ideally, the hatter also has them in long oval for folks like me. They are NOT cylindrical, but oval in cross section. In addition the the various sizes, the also come in various depths and in all different profiles. The #52 profile (also goes by other names) is a favorite with relatively straight sides and minimal taper; however, it not the right profile for some hats.

On CNC equipment, once programmed I’m sure blocks can be made quickly and inexpensively. Look at Hatter Supply House for block types and pricing.

https://hatterssupplyhouse.com/hat-blocks/

This band block shows the oval shape of what a crown block would look like in cross section.

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[J Williams]

You need a block for each hat size. Ideally, the hatter also has them in long oval for folks like me. They are NOT cylindrical, but oval in cross section. In addition the the various sizes, the also come in various depths and in all different profiles. The #52 profile (also goes by other names) is a favorite with relatively straight sides and minimal taper; however, it not the right profile for some hats.

On CNC equipment, once programmed I’m sure blocks can be made quickly and inexpensively. Look at Hatter Supply House for block types and pricing.

https://hatterssupplyhouse.com/hat-blocks/

This band block shows the oval shape of what a crown block would look like in cross section.

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Yeah that makes sense and kind of what I figured.

You are right that once it’s programmed it would be easy to scale up or down and produce several.

The prices they are selling for make sense to me. Probably about what I would have into it if I was to produce one myself. The point was if the specific block isn’t available for example for a BRE with the right info I could make it happen. And if a fellow lounger or hatmaker wanted something custom it would be a fun thing to play around with.


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[humanshoes]

When I've tried it with hats that were blocked on a #52 you have to narrow down the center crease so much to get that slight reverse taper front & back, that you end up with too much taper thru the side dents.

I think the #52 won't work because, even though it has relatively straight sides, it still has about 1/4" taper at the sides and about 1/2" taper at the front and back. Perfectly straight sides all around with a tall crown and deep center dent should get you the reverse taper look at front and back.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

I think the #52 won't work because, even though it has relatively straight sides, it still has about 1/4" taper at the sides and about 1/2" taper at the front and back. Perfectly straight sides all around with a tall crown and deep center dent should get you the reverse taper look at front and back.

Thanks Rick, vintage is hard to find but that gives me a direction on what to look for.

 

[humanshoes]

This just tickles the hell out of me. My latest Ebay purchase. Adjustable cattleman's crease hat block. I marvel at the simple ingenuity. Middle spacers to make most all of the common size hats up to 7 3/4 as it sits and very easy to make additional spacers for even larger sizes. Also, not that anybody would want to, but tall enough to make up to an 8 1/2 crown. Yee Haw!

 

[J Williams]

This just tickles the hell out of me. My latest Ebay purchase. Adjustable cattleman's crease hat block. I marvel at the simple ingenuity. Middle spacers to make most all of the common size hats up to 7 3/4 as it sits and very easy to make additional spacers for even larger sizes. Also, not that anybody would want to, but tall enough to make up to an 8 1/2 crown. Yee Haw!
View attachment 186521

Now that’s clever. As a bespoke hat maker would this be better than having several of the same blocks in different sizes?


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