Peacoat from "Major Coat Company"?

[Longplay]

I received my first eBay peacoat and confirmed my suspicion that this was going to be a learning experience and an adventure. The coat is going to be returned, primarily because the buttonhole bindings on the most-often-used side (hidden in the seller's photos) were all so badly frayed that the buttons swam around in them. There were a few small lining tears that could be repaired, but the buttonhole condition trumps that.

However, being able to get an idea about sizing will make this worthwhile, and this is where I'll welcome some help.

The jacket's tagged as a 42 and, though the seller said the P2P was 22.5, I measure it as 23. The sleeve inseam is 17” and the collar seam to the bottom is 33”. There is plenty of room in the shoulders, probably too much (I'm wearing a fairly heavy sweater in the photos below), but I doubt I'd want less room around the waist (I'm working on losing a bit of weight but, well, we'll see how that goes.)

So, to help me find the next one (possibly this one - circa '67?) the questions are:

• Am I wrong in thinking the sleeves are too long?
• If I stick with a 42, do I need a Short?
  
  comparing the dims for this coat to this other one, it sure looks like most 42Rs will have sleeves too long for me​
  on the other hand, Sterlingwear's size chart shows very little variation in sleeve length​
• Are sleeves hard to shorten – or is that a no-no regardless (the wife is a good seamstress)?
• Could I go to a 40?

Photos (who the heck is that old guy?)

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo160/lpa53/Peacoat 1/Peacoat1Front.jpg
http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo160/lpa53/Peacoat 1/Peacoat1Back.jpg
http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo160/lpa53/Peacoat 1/Peacoat1Side.jpg

Of course, after watching me scour the net for hours on end, the wife asks, “why don't you just get a new one?” ...

 

[Peacoat]

Peacoat, what are the expected P2P measurements of 38, 40, and 42 sized pea coats? I have remeasured my 1966 38R multiple times now and came up with a measurement of 21 3/8". At approximately 41.5" (chest measure) which size should I be looking for, for an optimal, true fit?

A size 38 up throughout the 1960s should be about 20.25". However, a size 38 might go just a little larger in the p2p than that. In the sizes below 38, the p2p seems to be larger still. For example I have three size 34s that all measure 19" (we would expect them to measure 18.25+-" p2p). And I have seen a bunch more with the same measurements. Don't want to confuse you, but that is an anomaly I have noticed. Size 36s are the same way. By the time we get to the size 38s they are pretty much non-anomalous.

A size 40 up through the 1960s will be about 21.25" and a size 42 will be about 22.25."

There is a current thread in this section that gives instructions and photographs explaining the proper way to measure garments. If you haven't already, take a look at it, especially the photograph showing the proper way to measure the p2p. At 21 3/8" your coat will fit like a size 40.

 

[Peacoat]

Longplay: The coat is too big for you. You need to go down a size or two. If you normally wear a short in a suit jacket, then you will probably need a short in a peacoat. But first, you have to nail the chest size. My sticky tells exactly how to do it. Measure your chest for your actual size and go from there. Sleeves are easy to take in or let out.

 

[Longplay]

Longplay: The coat is too big for you. You need to go down a size or two. If you normally wear a short in a suit jacket, then you will probably need a short in a peacoat. But first, you have to nail the chest size. My sticky tells exactly how to do it. Measure your chest for your actual size and go from there. Sleeves are easy to take in or let out.

Thanks for the response, Peacoat. I really thought I'd measured as a 42 before but likely I wasn't wearing a tight-enough t-shirt. I took the measurements again on bare skin all three measurements were 40.

Opposed to that, my latest suit jackets have all been 42s. Some have been shorts but most not. No two makers alike, I'm sure.

So if I go with a 40 in a peacoat then, how would one decide between Regular or Short? I would imagine that good vintage Shorts would be harder to find, but if the sleeve length is the primary difference, an R might be workable. (This one looks great, but costs about the same as a new one.)

The wife is in the background again: "Get a new one!", and the adventure continues...

 

[Longplay]

Not being experienced with pricing for good quality vintage peacoats, is this one overpriced? It appears to be in excellent condition but is priced the same as a new one from Sterlingwear. In addition, the seller doesn't accept returns.

 

[Kingston83]

Thanks for the response, Peacoat. I really thought I'd measured as a 42 before but likely I wasn't wearing a tight-enough t-shirt. I took the measurements again on bare skin all three measurements were 40.

Opposed to that, my latest suit jackets have all been 42s. Some have been shorts but most not. No two makers alike, I'm sure.

So if I go with a 40 in a peacoat then, how would one decide between Regular or Short? I would imagine that good vintage Shorts would be harder to find, but if the sleeve length is the primary difference, an R might be workable. (This one looks great, but costs about the same as a new one.)

The wife is in the background again: "Get a new one!", and the adventure continues...

Longplay my experience is with suits so take this with a grain of salt but I suspect it may be similar when it comes to sizing length. 6'1" is the cutoff for regular and long, 5'7 and under should be looking towards short.

 

[Kingston83]

A size 38 up throughout the 1960s should be about 20.25". However, a size 38 might go just a little larger in the p2p than that. In the sizes below 38, the p2p seems to be larger still. For example I have three size 34s that all measure 19" (we would expect them to measure 18.25+-" p2p). And I have seen a bunch more with the same measurements. Don't want to confuse you, but that is an anomaly I have noticed. Size 36s are the same way. By the time we get to the size 38s they are pretty much non-anomalous.

A size 40 up through the 1960s will be about 21.25" and a size 42 will be about 22.25."

There is a current thread in this section that gives instructions and photographs explaining the proper way to measure garments. If you haven't already, take a look at it, especially the photograph showing the proper way to measure the p2p. At 21 3/8" your coat will fit like a size 40.

I'll double check that now and make sure that I am doing this correctly. My main problem with this coat is that the arm scythes (armholes) are very high and the back point to point fits very snug offering little room for movement at full extension in front of my body (arms).

I called Sterlingwear and talked to a rep named Tony regarding the current made military issued pea coats. What I was told was that the military issues differ slight from the civilian "authentic" pea coat in the arm scythe height (military issues are higher in comparison), wool composition (100% in comparison to 80/20 - although I thought it was 80/20), and the wool is treated but with what Tony wasn't able to tell me. So I assume that all military coats are designed in such a manner.

If my 38R measures again to be more of a 40R then I may just look into purchasing a 42R when it comes up. That or purchase a new military issue pea coat.

 

[Peacoat]

If your chest measures 40", then a size 42 peacoat will be too large for you. Go with a 40 if you want to layer a sweater, or a 38 if you want a tighter fit the teen and twenty something crowd all desire.

Sleeves are easily shortened or lengthened, if they haven't been lengthened before.

You can get a new Mil Spec peacoat from Sterlingwear. They are nice coats, but they aren't Kersey. I had one and gave it to a long time buddy as the vintage coats had pushed it out of the closet. There really is no comparison in the quality of the wool shell between the vintage Kersey and the current issue Sterlingwear. However, if I were not going to buy vintage Kersey, I would go current issue Sterlingwear (used), or the Mil Spec by Sterlingwear. It is the same peacoat.

Edit Note: Kingston, I saw the chest measurement posted by Longplay--40, and was replying to that measurement. I see now that wasn't your measurement. Even I make an error every now and then. The rest of the post stands.

 

[Longplay]

Longplay my experience is with suits so take this with a grain of salt but I suspect it may be similar when it comes to sizing length. 6'1" is the cutoff for regular and long, 5'7 and under should be looking towards short.

So if I'm understanding you correctly, if I'm around 5-10, I should be in the Regular range?

 

[Spoonbelly]

So if I'm understanding you correctly, if I'm around 5-10, I should be in the Regular range?

At 5'-10" an "R" size should be great (body length that is). I have never seen any old Kersey coats posted on ebay with "S" sizes - only the newer black Melton coats. At your height an "S" would be too short.

 

[Longplay]

At 5'-10" an "R" size should be great (body length that is). I have never seen any old Kersey coats posted on ebay with "S" sizes - only the newer black Melton coats. At your height an "S" would be too short.

The photo below is of a 42R. It was too large in the body so I'm now looking at size 40 (a 38 would be a stretch - literally). The question then is Short or Regular. From looking at the photo, would you say that the coat's bottom is hitting at the right point? What about the sleeve length? Where are the cuffs supposed to land?

What is the most reliable and definitive sleeve measurement to ask sellers for? eBay sellers give sleeve measurements that are over the place, some even giving a 42R or 40R's shoulder seam to cuff length of 26", which would take it below my fingers.

Speaking of Short sizes, I found this on eBay, and though it has no size tag, the dimensions seem to make it a 40S. The sleeve measurements are close to that of my old 1970s size 36 but the body length does seem a bit short.

 

[Jeff M]

So if I'm understanding you correctly, if I'm around 5-10, I should be in the Regular range?

Yes.
My son stands 6'4".
I bought him a size 42 Long vintage Kersey peacoat.
ALMOST fits him well. A bit short sleeved on him. Could use a bit more length in the sleeves, but jacket is very wearable for him.... his go to cool weather jacket.

I purchased a size 46 Regular for a friend of mine who stands 5'11".
Fits him perfectly.

I stand 5'9".
I take a "regular" in vintage peacoats. Arm length on me is where I generally like it for this kind of coat. Hits the back of my hand just above my large knuckles. My son's "large" peacoat sleeves hit about 2" further down my hand... just below where the sleeves on the above coat hit the wearer's hand in the above photo.
My other son stands 6'. My peacoats fit him perfectly.

 

[Spoonbelly]

Yes.
My son stands 6'4".
I bought him a size 42 Long vintage Kersey peacoat.
ALMOST fits him well. A bit short sleeved on him. Could use a bit more length in the sleeves, but jacket is very wearable for him.... his go to cool weather jacket.

I purchased a size 46 Regular for a friend of mine who stands 5'11".
Fits him perfectly.

I stand 5'9".
I take a "regular" in vintage peacoats. Arm length on me is where I generally like it for this kind of coat. Hits the back of my hand just above my large knuckles. My son's "large" peacoat sleeves hit about 2" further down my hand... just below where the sleeves on the above coat hit the wearer's hand in the above photo.
My other son stands 6'. My peacoats fit him perfectly.

Would it be possible to post a picture of the tag with the size on it on that 42L. I'm very curious to see what year that coat is. I'm also surprised that the sleeve length is too short in a "L" Long size. Thank you.

 

[Jeff M]

Would it be possible to post a picture of the tag with the size on it on that 42L. I'm very curious to see what year that coat is. I'm also surprised that the sleeve length is too short in a "L" Long size. Thank you.

Don't have the coat here.
The tag is the same design as the 1949 tag in Peacoat's stickie.

 

[Spoonbelly]

Don't have the coat here.
The tag is the same design as the 1949 tag in Peacoat's stickie.

If it is a size 42 Long it should have on the tag 42L. If it has 42 it is a 42 regular ( regular sleeve length, and body length).

 

[Peacoat]

The photo below is of a 42R. It was too large in the body so I'm now looking at size 40 (a 38 would be a stretch - literally). The question then is Short or Regular. From looking at the photo, would you say that the coat's bottom is hitting at the right point? What about the sleeve length? Where are the cuffs supposed to land?

What is the most reliable and definitive sleeve measurement to ask sellers for? eBay sellers give sleeve measurements that are over the place, some even giving a 42R or 40R's shoulder seam to cuff length of 26", which would take it below my fingers.

Speaking of Short sizes, I found this on eBay, and though it has no size tag, the dimensions seem to make it a 40S. The sleeve measurements are close to that of my old 1970s size 36 but the body length does seem a bit short.

Well, first of all she is advertising the coat as a WWII coat. It isn't; it is a 1949. Secondly, her price is too expensive for a post war coat.

If you would go back to the basics and tell me your measured chest size, that is a good place to start. As to the question of what length, peacoats aren't that much different than suit sizes with respect to length. If you wear a short size in a suit, you will probably need a short size in a peacoat.

If I remember correctly, each size up (say, 40 to 42) is about 1/2" longer in the sleeves, and about 1" longer in the body. The difference in the regular to tall sizes is about double that.

The sleeves of a peacoat should hit about an inch or so below the wrist joint. If the sleeves are too short, they can be let out about an inch. The body length should cover the butt but not more than an inch or so below.

See below an illustration of the proper way to measure p2p (material should be pulled tighter on the left side of the jacket) and the proper way to measure sleeve length. While the featured jacket is a leather flight jacket, the same method holds true for peacoats.

 

[Longplay]

Peacoat, my chest measures 40 and I'm 5'-9 1/2" tall. I compared the measurements of the 1949 coat mentioned above against those of my early 70s coat and found that the sleeve length matches nearly exactly and that the body length is perhaps 1.5" longer. I like the sleeve length on my 70s coat, which lands at the point you mention, about an inch below my wrist. The increased length I could stand because I do think my 70s coat is a bit short.

What price should a 1949 coat in good condition command?

 

[Peacoat]

Peacoat, my chest measures 40 and I'm 5'-9 1/2" tall. I compared the measurements of the 1949 coat mentioned above against those of my early 70s coat and found that the sleeve length matches nearly exactly and that the body length is perhaps 1.5" longer. I like the sleeve length on my 70s coat, which lands at the point you mention, about an inch below my wrist. The increased length I could stand because I do think my 70s coat is a bit short.

What price should a 1949 coat in good condition command?

Keep in mind that the sleeve length "matches nearly exactly" only if you and the seller are using the same method to measure. Sellers need to be educated as to the proper way to measure the three or four important points on a jacket. I am usually satisfied with the p2p and the sleeve length. If they can get those two right, I am happy.

With a chest measurement of 40" I would say a size 40 with a p2p of 21.25 to 21.50 would be the best bet for you, if you are only going to have one peacoat. This will give you a little extra room in the body to layer. As I remember, Wheaton is up in the cold zone not too far from Chicago? I believe it is in about the same temperature band as Rockford where a friend of mine used to live. You will definitely need a sweater or vest under the coat from November through mid March.

Even though a closely fitting peacoat is warmer than a loose fitting peacoat, the difference isn't dramatic. In December, during our first cold spell, I wore my size 40 peacoat with no sweater one morning when the temp was 18 degrees. Felt the chill in my torso area after just a few minutes. The next day the temp was 19 degrees. I wore a size 42 peacoat with a sweater for comparison purposes. Stayed warm with the sweater. The size 40 is close fitting, and the 42 has enough room to comfortably wear a sweater or vest. I have a 42" chest.

Wheaton gets colder and stays colder longer than the weather here in Middle Tennessee. I imagine that much of the time you would need something warmer than a peacoat. Back when I spent time in NYC, I did fine with the size 40 peacoat with no sweater and temps in the upper teens. But that was over 30 years ago, and I was a bit younger then. Seems as though it has gotten colder at the same ambient temperatures than it was 30 or so years ago. I somehow blame it on Al Gore and that global warming business of his.

As to price, you ought to be able to get a vintage peacoat (up through 1979) in excellent condition for between $50 and $150. Some may go for less than that and others for more than that, but that price range is a good estimate. The prices at Vintage Trends have risen dramatically over the past several years. I can only attribute that to the fact than I have sent hundreds of prospective purchasers to the their website, and most have bought from them. I noticed the price increase shortly after I first started recommending the company. There are only so many vintage peacoats in good condition still around after all of these years. It is the old Supply and Demand thing you learned in Economics 101.

I have found that eBay sellers haven't a clue as to the era of the peacoat. I actually had one seller, who advertised the coat as a WWII coat, tell me she thought is was WWII because "it looked old." Many of them will price their coats based on their perceived age of the coat. Nor do they have a clue as to the condition of the coat. I like to ask a seller to hold the peacoat at an angle to a strong light source, such as a daytime window. Then examine each panel and see if there are any holes or grazing marks. This method, if done properly, will show damage that hasn't even happened yet! In other words, it shows everything.

As often happens, I have written a chapter, when perhaps a paragraph would have answered your questions. Hope it has been helpful. PC.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Back when I spent time in NYC, I did fine with the size 40 peacoat with no sweater and temps in the upper teens. But that was over 30 years ago, and I was a bit younger then. Seems as though it has gotten colder at the same ambient temperatures than it was 30 or so years ago. I somehow blame it on Al Gore and that global warming business of his.

The best way to discredit something that thousands of scientists agree is happening is to say that it's only the fantasy of a single politician, and who trusts politicians? Besides, it's climate change, not climate warming, and you're just getting older and can't handle the cold as well. Closely related is humidity. For example, Moscow is generally much colder than Toronto in the winter, but ask any Russian who's lived in both cities and they will say that Toronto feels colder. Why? Because in Toronto it's a humid cold, whereas in Moscow it's a dry cold.

 

[Peacoat]

The best way to discredit something that thousands of scientists agree is happening is to say that it's only the fantasy of a single politician, and who trusts politicians? Besides, it's climate change, not climate warming, and you're just getting older and can't handle the cold as well.

As in other areas, it would appear that humor is in the eyes of the beholder.