Passive Resistance?

[MissMittens]

This is why I buy locally-grown food where possible, use a diesel as my daily driver, and buy used furnishings and computers.....and always pay cash

 

[MissMittens]

OK, so that's three you applied to, (perhaps more if I am reading the ellipses correctly) but you said two banks turned you down. What happened at the third?

I do not know, because my mortgage broker, who got the same fee no matter how much of a mortgage I took, told me that based on what he'd seen over the previous quarter it probably wasn't worth the time to go to the 3rd especially as it's rates weren't as good. So I ended up going for 80% of what HSBC said I qualified for rather than the 50% that I had initially wanted, and bought a house at the very peak of the housing market - Nov 06 - that 6 months later wasn't worth what I paid for it. I didn't just take his word for it though, I called mortgage brokerages and several told me the same thing, that the banks had instituted some kind of "minimum lending figure" because "the market is so strong its not worth it to them to give you less".

 

[Undertow]

I don't know if I understand your question. For example, many pencil pushers just do stuff like work for the phone company and send out the bills. Or take customer complaints etc. The point is that for Joe average pencil pusher, there isn't any opportunity to change someone's life. It that is the problem you are referring to, it might not really be a widespread problem...

This is true to a point - no single cog in the machinery can control the overall outcome. Corporate work is designed that way specifically - for good reasons, and otherwise.

Say you're talking about a health insurance claim -
1. Doctor renders service
2. Nurse interprets and files notes
3. Claims Coders file claims
4. Data Entry clerk keys claim
5. Provider Credentialling Department ensures active provider contract for claims submission
6. Membership Department verifies active member contract
7. Claims Examiner interprets any denial edits and payment codes
8. Claim Adjudication/Financial Clerk processes any payments and to whom, checks are cut
9. Mail Services/Printing Warehouse issue payment and remittance advice
10. Customer Service Call Center Clerk fields any questions regarding claim adjudication
11. Medical Records Review requests and processes any records for adjustment of denials
12. Special Investigations Unit investigate suspicious patterns...

And the list goes on. That is a machine with many moving parts. A membership clerk cannot be expected to override a medical records denial - it's outside of their scope. Yet, they may have the power to grant/deny coverage based on "pre-existing conditions". You see what I mean?

 

[Noirblack]

Although I don't think it is fair that there is a minimum lending requirement, you still got a mortgage at the end of the day. And you took the deal. I know that sounds unsympathetic, but I do have sympathy for you and many other in your situation. Even if you had a smaller mortgage you'd be underwater right now, albeit to a lesser extent.

If you look at the big picture, as long as you continue to pay the mortgage the bank is unlikely to foreclose on you. Eventually the house will be worth what you paid for it. One key thing that will help that happen is when the banks in the US start lending on houses again. I know that even people with excellent credit ratings in the Us have a difficult time getting a mortgage now. Ultimately the lenders have to get lending again. Hopefully with more restraint than they did up to 2008.

 

[Noirblack]

This is true to a point - no single cog in the machinery can control the overall outcome. Corporate work is designed that way specifically - for good reasons, and otherwise.

Say you're talking about a health insurance claim -
1. Doctor renders service
2. Nurse interprets and files notes
3. Claims Coders file claims
4. Data Entry clerk keys claim
5. Provider Credentialling Department ensures active provider contract for claims submission
6. Membership Department verifies active member contract
7. Claims Examiner interprets any denial edits and payment codes
8. Claim Adjudication/Financial Clerk processes any payments and to whom, checks are cut
9. Mail Services/Printing Warehouse issue payment and remittance advice
10. Customer Service Call Center Clerk fields any questions regarding claim adjudication
11. Medical Records Review requests and processes any records for adjustment of denials
12. Special Investigations Unit investigate suspicious patterns...

And the list goes on. That is a machine with many moving parts. A membership clerk cannot be expected to override a medical records denial - it's outside of their scope. Yet, they may have the power to grant/deny coverage based on "pre-existing conditions". You see what I mean?

You left out claims adjuster - the one person who can make a difference no matter how many other cogs there are in the machine. The question is what will that person decide to do. They can't turn down every claim, but they are not likely to approve anything that would raise the eyebrow of a superior.

 

[Flicka]

The way I resisted was by never going into that line of work in the first place. Sure you make more money by living the corporate life, sure a mortgage broker will always make more money than a small-town theatre manager, but at what cost?

I choose working for the government. I could make many times what I do if I'd chosen to work for a big law firm, but I'm not for sale.

I once asked my mother if she thought I would buck under pressure and enforce policies I thought immoral (you know, The Third Reich-scenario). She laughed so hard she cried. "You! You wouldn't even survive two days," she said. "You'd start objecting before they had even finished giving the order. You have zero survival instinct." I was rather proud of that, actually.

Ideally, I would like to be a full time writer one day, but that's probably not realistic. Either way, in my eyes, success was best defined by Bob Dylan: "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to." That is what I'd like to accomplish. It has absolutely nothing to do with the size of your house or what car you drive or how "cool" you are.

 

[MissMittens]

Another government worker I think there are lots of us here

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

This discussion reminds me of the typical plot of a Frank Capra movie. A bit naive but charming and very very idealistic.

[video=youtube_share;UP0MSt5g5WQ]http://youtu.be/UP0MSt5g5WQ[/video]

 

[MissMittens]

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

 

[AmateisGal]

Ideally, I would like to be a full time writer one day, but that's probably not realistic. Either way, in my eyes, success was best defined by Bob Dylan: "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to." That is what I'd like to accomplish. It has absolutely nothing to do with the size of your house or what car you drive or how "cool" you are.

Yes. This is what I want to do, too. If I can swing it, I want to work at home most of the time as a writer, and maybe get a part-time job or work as a volunteer at a museum just to get out and around people. Will it happen? Who knows. I don't need or want a fancy house or a fancy car or name-brand furniture. Doesn't matter to me in the least. What DO I want financially? The ability to pay my bills without wondering which ones I should juggle around for the month, the ability to travel, and a nice nest egg. I really don't care to be a millionaire. Though if I win the lottery, I won't complain!

 

[MissMittens]

Yes. This is what I want to do, too. If I can swing it, I want to work at home most of the time as a writer, and maybe get a part-time job or work as a volunteer at a museum just to get out and around people. Will it happen? Who knows. I don't need or want a fancy house or a fancy car or name-brand furniture. Doesn't matter to me in the least. What DO I want financially? The ability to pay my bills without wondering which ones I should juggle around for the month, the ability to travel, and a nice nest egg. I really don't care to be a millionaire. Though if I win the lottery, I won't complain!

You're off to a great start, I love your WW2 reviews

 

[AmateisGal]

Thank you! Now if I can just get the WW2 novel published...

 

[Stanley Doble]

This discussion reminds me of the typical plot of a Frank Capra movie. A bit naive but charming and very very idealistic.

[video=youtube_share;UP0MSt5g5WQ]http://youtu.be/UP0MSt5g5WQ[/video]

By an odd coincidence today at the public library I started reading a book on honesty or trust and prosperity. The conclusion was that the countries with the highest level of honesty and trust were the most prosperous and the countries with the most corruption, bribery, crime and general crookedness were the most backward and poor.

Economists who have made a study of the subject claim there is a direct correlation. Where public trust is lacking, business is stymied at every turn. People are less happy, less efficient, more suspicious and pretty much worse off in every way.

American banker J.P. Morgan considered character the number one criterion for making a loan. There were other criteria of course, but if character was lacking there was very little chance of him approving a loan no matter what else the borrower had.

 

[sheeplady]

By an odd coincidence today at the public library I started reading a book on honesty or trust and prosperity. The conclusion was that the countries with the highest level of honesty and trust were the most prosperous and the countries with the most corruption, bribery, crime and general crookedness were the most backward and poor.

Economists who have made a study of the subject claim there is a direct correlation. Where public trust is lacking, business is stymied at every turn. People are less happy, less efficient, more suspicious and pretty much worse off in every way.

American banker J.P. Morgan considered character the number one criterion for making a loan. There were other criteria of course, but if character was lacking there was very little chance of him approving a loan no matter what else the borrower had.

Unfortunately if public trust is the indicator of the prosperity of the nation, a lot of developed nations' governments and corporations are in deep trouble.

 

[Undertow]

Unfortunately if public trust is the indicator of the prosperity of the nation, a lot of developed nations' governments and corporations are in deep trouble.

Perhaps this is why we seem to be in such a decline? A tailspin from which we can't recover.

It's bitter irony that JP Morgan considered character to be criteria for loans.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Indeed. A man who made his early fortune selling defective guns to the Army, and bought his way out of the Civil War is hardly qualified to judge anyone's character.

 

[Flicka]

Indeed. A man who made his early fortune selling defective guns to the Army, and bought his way out of the Civil War is hardly qualified to judge anyone's character.

But they do say you can't con a con man. And that it takes one to know one...

 

[Stanley Doble]

Maybe Morgan never loaned himself money ha ha ha ha. I know I wouldn't rent a house to myself.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

As granddad used to say, Two plus Two equals Five when you're lending but only Three when you're borrowing.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Sadly most people don't have the chance to resist. The way our system is constituted, unless you're near the top, they've got you where they want you - In the crapper, on minumum wage, so tired that you can barely think about getting up tomorrow, let alone ways to resist.

I resist. But I don't think it's possible to resist passively. Resistance must be active; in my view it's a logical fallacy to suggest it can be otherwise.

I can list the ways I resist, but that's pointless. If you have a garden, why aren't you growing food in it? Why don't you mend clothes rather than buy new ones? Why do most people never cook at home? If you save less than 20%, why? How often do you assess your life and habits, and work out what you really need, and whether you're doing stuff for yourself, or to keep up with the Jones's? etc etc etc. The problem with resistance is that it requires work, and a rational - constant - reappraisal of oneself and one's habits. Most are not willing.

Take the sadomasochism away from Gandhi's ideas, and you have the perfect form of resistance - peaceful, active, non-co-operation.

bk