Panama hats ratings: my opinion

[Art Fawcett]

Next, I do not expect to create a hostile environment by allowing people to discuss all, not just positive, experiences with anyone and everyone. We're all grown-ups here, and can, or should be able to, politely discuss the pros and cons of anything and everything relating to hats without resorting to defamation or just plain meanness

Lefty, between you and I, or others in this particular thread, I can agree with you that this SHOULD be able to happen and in fact is happening within this thread. Logical, reasonable adults should be able to control what they are saying, but, from being on the Lounge almost from it's inception, I can honestly tell you that it doesn't happen that way. There is invariably someone that enjoys condemning others, using foul language to communicate, belittles each and every member that has a differing opinion, and is completely unwilling to "play nice". I have just described GH. Many of the restrictive rules in place on the Lounge are a direct result of his behavior and since you have found his site, you know that he has particular fun at creating lies about me personally, from my workmanship to my character. No evil thought goes unsaid, none. Add that to the misinformation about hatmaking in general ( much of which only another hatter would recognize) and you have a formula for "spamfest". No thanks

Woodfluter, I've taken pics like this and agree with you that it isn't rocket science. Perhaps I'm seeing a bigger picture in my mind because what can be said with these types of closups is "OK,,that's one square inch..what about the rest of the hat" So, in my minds eye, I'm seeing pics with enough clarity and just the right angle to see the weave for straightness along the entire side of the hat, not just a patch, much as your natural eye would see them. Even then, that wouldn't satisfy the most cynical, so I don't really see a 100% failsafe method. In the few years I've been in retail I've come to recognise that there are people who just cannot be satisfied, period. I know there is a psychology term for it, but don't know that term. Maybe the more educated among us can elaborate, I just know it to be a reality.

 

[Woodfluter]

//Woodfluter, I've taken pics like this and agree with you that it isn't rocket science. Perhaps I'm seeing a bigger picture in my mind because what can be said with these types of closups is "OK,,that's one square inch..what about the rest of the hat" So, in my minds eye, I'm seeing pics with enough clarity and just the right angle to see the weave for straightness along the entire side of the hat, not just a patch, much as your natural eye would see them. Even then, that wouldn't satisfy the most cynical, so I don't really see a 100% failsafe method. In the few years I've been in retail I've come to recognise that there are people who just cannot be satisfied, period. //

I understand, Art. Yes, there are screwballs out there, and also people who don't recognize yet the limits of their knowledge. You are in a position to know better than I, but it seems they would be a very small, if troublesome minority. I really don't think you have to illustrate everything for the clinically skeptical. I think one could simply show reasonably representative details. That's where the trust comes in. If they can't trust you even that far, they just aren't worth the bother. From my perspective, pics can add to information and also build excitement. As in "I heard his stuff was good, but man, that's really cool! Where's my checkbook..."

 

[RPeers]

Well it seems the only fair way to do this is for every one of you to send me your panamas and I will personally rate them on my own scale based on my size and how it looks on me personally... the scale will be binary 0 - do not match my size or style and will be returned with haste 1 - fits like a glove and will be shipped back sometime within the next year. This way everyone will know the quality of their hats, based on the RPeers Binary Scaling System or The RPBSS, so just pm me and let me know when your hat will arrive...

 

[Art Fawcett]

You are right Woodfluter, it's an incredibly small minority, but those tend to ruin your day when you do run into them. Lest I not be clear, I am not speaking of anyone posting here. Just in general terms and past experiences. When in Masonry I develpoed a "sense" about people because the bidding process afforded the time to talk most of the time. When I left a home after the first meeting, my gut would tell me whether to accept the job or not and it was rarely wrong. Whenever I went against my gut feeling I had problems with the clients. It took a while but I finally started listening, no matter how badly I need the work, and life was much better from then on. I'm only beginning to get that "sense" when talking hatting. Yes, there ARE people I won't build a hat for, but fortunately, not many.

One thing that I don't believe has been expressed in writing here is that you won't see many panama's on my site because I also block for PB and do not want to appear to be in competion with him. I consider Robert a friend and value that friendship more than the few hats I could sell from promoting on my site. Call it a quirk, but I'm not that hungry.

 

[univibe88]

Call it a quirk,

Nope, I call it smart and ethical business. :eusa_clap

 

[Magus]

I have not chimed in on this thread because the dust seemed to be flying and I wanted to let it settle a bit first.

I understand the desire to "know what you are buying". What I cant help thinking is that its a left-brain / right-brain thing. Art and Science...two different patterns of thinking from two dirrerent sides of the brain. As I read through all the posts its a bit like watching an old episode of Star Trek with Doc Mcoy and Mr. Spock debating.

For me...personally...buying the art of the hat is more important than the science. For instance. For Father's Day I ordered a hat from Panama Bob. I gave him the level of weave via the price, and asked for a slightly smaller brim. I chose to have the hat blocked there rather than send it to Art F, because I am buying something made by an artisian and I want that to be reflected the whole way through the hat. Will it be "as good" as Art F. could do it? Perhaps not. But it will be a totally "authentic" item and (for me) thats the main joy of owning it. Will the color be exact? Perhaps not...but it will be even more unique due to that.

Just my two cents..then again...being a musician...I WOULD answer this way wouldn't I?

 

[Woodfluter]

///As I read through all the posts its a bit like watching an old episode of Star Trek with Doc Mcoy and Mr. Spock debating.

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap

///For me...personally...buying the art of the hat is more important than the science. ///
I chose to have the hat blocked there rather than send it to Art F, because I am buying something made by an artisian and I want that to be reflected the whole way through the hat. ///
Just my two cents..then again...being a musician...I WOULD answer this way wouldn't I?

I couldn't agree more. I made the same decision about blocking for the same reason. Maybe because I'm a musician too. Just gotta love the anticipation everytime I see a delivery truck or the mailman pass by...

To me, as someone who uses words a lot and isn't a half bad writer, photos tell more than a 1000 words...In any case, I'm sure I'll be very happy with what I get and be able to fix the trivial stuff.

- Bill

 

[Neil]

Passing on a review. . .

I put a friend of mine in touch with PB.
He'd been searching for a Panama, and had done a lot of reading, and looked at a lot of sites, and finally swallowed and ponied up about $450 for one of Robert's finer offerings. He received it this week.
This is a fellow who ingested all he could of the endless argument over fineness of weave versus perfection of weave, and made his choice.
Robert's hat, he says, is "perfect." He's a happy boy. Wore it all day.
Now, you could take the hat and examine it with a magnifying glass, and count the weaves, and enumerate flaws, and post super-high-resolution digital photographs, but it's hard to argue with an assessment like that, isn't it?

 

[carter]

Well said, Neil.

While not delving into the stratospheric range of pricing on Panama Hats, I have purchased quite a few from various auctions, retailers, and on-line vendors.
No on-line store is better than personal contact but some on-line stores/vendors are better than others.
Some vendors communicate well. Some don't.
Some vendors are willing to make modifications (i,e, narrower brim). Some aren't.
It's up to the buyer to do their homework, as Neil's friend did. The more one is willing to spend, the more homework they should do.

Based on personal experience, I will say that there is at least one website/on-line store for Panamas that is well-documented, has excellent descriptions and pictures (that one can zoom in on), is perfectly willing to make modifications as requested, has extremely fair pricing, and provides excellent communication via both the internet and the telephone.
Their product meets my expectations.

In the end, this is what it's all about.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Well said, Neil.


Based on personal experience, I will say that there is at least one website/on-line store for Panamas that is well-documented, has excellent descriptions and pictures (that one can zoom in on), is perfectly willing to make modifications as requested, has extremely fair pricing, and provides excellent communication via both the internet and the telephone.
Their product meets my expectations.

And that would be...?

Cheers,
JtL

 

[carter]

And that would be...?

Cheers,
JtL

PM sent

 

[Panamabob]

Send me a PM, too! lol

 

[Neil]

Because we all like pics. . .

Here is the hat PB sold my friend.